O'Connor loads?
- Thread starter Philthy1
- Start date
Yeah....Around 55 grains IMR 4350 and 60 grains H4831 are Pet loads for the 270 Win with 130 grains. There was an article in Handloader magazine a while ago where the author tried 49.5 grains IMR 4064, it +/- worked in his 3 rifles. You don't know how things would happen in your rifle. Start low and load up with caution. Do not jump immediately to 49.5 grains.
You can do IMR 4064 in the 270 Win. The velocity you will get with IMR 4064 will be lower than with IMR4350, which in turn will be lower than H4831. The slower the powder, the higher the velocity. You can 'load down' a 270 win with IMR 4064 if you want to use a 130 grains at short distances in the woods. Around 2800-2850 fps are easily achieved with IMR 4064 with low pressure and recoil.
Final advice, please get a book with published load data and do not rely on what people tell you.
You can do IMR 4064 in the 270 Win. The velocity you will get with IMR 4064 will be lower than with IMR4350, which in turn will be lower than H4831. The slower the powder, the higher the velocity. You can 'load down' a 270 win with IMR 4064 if you want to use a 130 grains at short distances in the woods. Around 2800-2850 fps are easily achieved with IMR 4064 with low pressure and recoil.
Final advice, please get a book with published load data and do not rely on what people tell you.
This is sort of a crazy co-incidence but when I was a somewhat younger dawg people seemed to be divided between not even having heard of hand-loading and those thinking it was an incredibly dangerous activity best keep confined to gun nuts with a death wish. Growing up in the bush wasn't all bad, but it wasn't exactly the information super highway.
So anyways, I got a copy of JOCs Complete book of the rifle and shotgun from the Outdoor Life book club and read the snot out of it until the covers fell off when I probably should have been just playing with blocks. About the only people I knew that actually had heard of a 270 pronounced it as a two hundred and seventy, and knew a guy that knew a guy that said it shot flatter than piss on a platter and killed better than a 30-06. Or so they heard.
On the other hand my hero said it was great and light recoiling and killed like lightning and I'd already decided that a 30-30 was a piece of #### just by observation.In that book JOC mentioned a few other calibers and more than one load for a 270; but did mention that the most consistently accurate load he had ever found for light sporters was 49.5 grains of 4064 with a 130. Naturally the first thing I did when my parents weren't looking was buy a Parker Hale in 270 and ordered a press and dies from the guy at the hardware store 35 miles away. He was sort of hesitant, but cleansed his concious by giving me the number of a guy he knew that had actually loaded a shell before. Like I was going to call him, that was long distance and cost money, which the one thing I knew I didn't have any of.
So, with nobody home and a press that wasn't bolted to anything I loaded 1 shell at what the Lee scoops swore was 47.5 grains of 4064 and stuck the gun out the door with the door between me and potential disaster and pulled the trigger. It made a pretty good bang sound, but when I ejected the casing it was all black and smoky. I thought that that meant I was a c*** hair away from blowing up stuff, but there was nothing else to do on
the farm and since the next possible increment I could move up with the scoops was Jacks 49.5 grains I went to that. Naturaly being the sane and cautious person that I am I held it in my left hand because a logical right handed person would rather lose his left hand than his right hand. It made a pretty good bang sound and nothing blew up. Crazy thing at the time is the case wasn't smokey this time. These days people would call my process "working up a load".
Want to hear something funny? I shot 3 barrels out with that load. If you got something to say to Jack; say it to me first
This is sort of a crazy co-incidence but when I was a somewhat younger dawg people seemed to be divided between not even having heard of hand-loading and those thinking it was an incredibly dangerous activity best keep confined to gun nuts with a death wish. Growing up in the bush wasn't all bad, but it wasn't exactly the information super highway.
So anyways, I got a copy of JOCs Complete book of the rifle and shotgun from the Outdoor Life book club and read the snot out of it until the covers fell off when I probably should have been just playing with blocks. About the only people I knew that actually had heard of a 270 pronounced it as a two hundred and seventy, and knew a guy that knew a guy that said it shot flatter than piss on a platter and killed better than a 30-06. Or so they heard.
In that book JOC mentioned a few other calibers and more than one load for a 270; but did mention that the most consistently accurate load he had ever found for light sporters was 49.5 grains of 4064 with a 130. Naturally the first thing I did when my parents weren't looking was buy a Parker Hale in 270 and ordered a press and dies from the guy at the hardware store 35 miles away. He was sort of hesitant, but cleansed his concious by giving me the number of a guy he knew that had actually loaded a shell before. Like I was going to call him, that was long distance and cost money, which the one thing I knew I didn't have any of.
So, with nobody home and a press that wasn't bolted to anything I loaded 1 shell at what the Lee scoops swore was 47.5 grains of 4064 and stuck the gun out the door with the door between me and potential disaster and pulled the trigger. It made a pretty good bang sound, but when I ejected the casing it was all black and smoky. I thought that that meant I was a c*** hair away from blowing up stuff, but there was nothing else to do on
the farm and since the next possible increment I could move up with the scoops was Jacks 49.5 grains I went to that. Naturaly being the sane and cautious person that I am I held it in my left hand because a logical right handed person would rather lose his left hand than his right hand. It made a pretty good bang sound and nothing blew up. Crazy thing at the time is the case wasn't smokey this time. These days people would call my process "working up a load".
Want to hear something funny? I shot 3 barrels out with that load. If you got something to say to Jack; say it to me first
Thank you. That is a great story.
If you meant for a 270 Win, 49.5 gr of IMR 4064 for a 130gr bullet, you are way over max powder weight according to Hodgdon's reloading data, and my Lee reloading manual (2nd ed).
Hodgdon website lists max powder weight for IMR 4064 and 130gr bullet at 47.5gr for a Hornady SP, and 47.3gr for a Barnes TSX (same in the Lee manual).
Hodgdon website lists the Barnes pressure at max load at 62,900 PSI. My Lee Reloading manual lists the pressure at max load of IMR 4064 (47.5gr) for a 130gr "jacketed bullet" at 62,500 PSI. These are very high pressures, at the edge of what is considered safe.
Unless I am reading my manual and the Hodgdon reloading data website wrong, I think your suggestion of trying 49.5gr of IMR 4064 is going to be significantly over pressure and potentially dangerous.
Here is Hodgdon's reloading data link, where you can check out the min-max load data:
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
I was surprised that for the 270 Win, with its long history, that Hodgdon's website (as of today) only lists data for only two 130gr bullets (for that powder). But mass is mass, so most bullets (not jammed into rifling) should be similar for min-max powder charge weights.
I recommend you start at the minimum powder charge weights listed in reloading manuals, and work up carefully and observe for pressure signs, and to stay within the min-max powder charge.
^^^^^ This.
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In checking several older reloading manuals, I was unable to find any that
showed a max load above 49.0 grains of IMR 4064 in the 270 Winchester
with 130 grain bullets.
I would work up carefully, since 4064 is considerably faster than IMR 4350.
Personally, I prefer powders in the H4831/Norma MRP/IMR 7828 burn rates
in the 270. Dave.
showed a max load above 49.0 grains of IMR 4064 in the 270 Winchester
with 130 grain bullets.
I would work up carefully, since 4064 is considerably faster than IMR 4350.
Personally, I prefer powders in the H4831/Norma MRP/IMR 7828 burn rates
in the 270. Dave.
I remember having read the following information but I do not remember where. It seems that the powder scale of O'Connor was checked after his death and found to overestimate his loads by 1 grain...This means that when his scale indicated 49.5 it was in fact 48.5 gains of IMR 4064 and when it indicated 61-62 grains of H4831 it was in fact 60-61 grains. This makes sense. One should also remember that powder manufacturing changes over time, therefore pressures and obtained velocities. The same goes for different powder lots from the same powder as we all know...
There is no substitute for a cautious ladder test.
There is no substitute for a cautious ladder test.
I loaded this load with Horn 130 gr ILocks and CCI200 sparkers in my buddies 270 winny years ago and I bet he killed 2 dozen plus deer with it ! Only 3000 fps but Very Accurate .RJ
I shot this load in my REM M700 270 with good accuracy results too but only 3000 fps .
Have you chronographed that load of Reloder 23? I suspect it will be quite slow.
I have a load of 59.0 grains of RL 23 behind the 140 Accubond, and it is c. 2950.
Dave.
53gr IMR4350 under a 130gr Nosler Ballistic Tip was pretty accurate for me, sub-MOA at least. Even better was 51.5 under a 150gr Partition - this one is the most accurate load I've worked up for any rifle, half-MOA in a bone stock Savage Axis.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not in front of me. However, if I remember Pet loads it's 59 or 60 grains H4831 and a 130. Other articles I've read quote O'Connor as saying if that load with a 130 flat base bullet will not shoot its time to rebarrel.
When it comes to early slow powders, be careful. Ganderite should be along to comment, but here's my understanding. Bruce Hodgdon discovered the navy dumping tonnes of 40mm anti aircraft shells in the ocean. He bought warehouses full of it, each shell containing approximately five lbs of the powder that would go on to start his business h4831. That and 4350 were about the only slow rifle powders available. Circa late 40's to 60's. That powder is almost certainly extinct or now approaching 80 years old. More recent manufacture h4831 is faster than that post WWII surplus. Further a few years ago Hodgedon bought IMR powders. Apparently h4831 and imr4831 are now identical; whereas, previously, imr was faster than H.
So start low and work up.
My understanding fastest to slowest.
Imr4350》》h4350》》imr4831》》h4831
When it comes to early slow powders, be careful. Ganderite should be along to comment, but here's my understanding. Bruce Hodgdon discovered the navy dumping tonnes of 40mm anti aircraft shells in the ocean. He bought warehouses full of it, each shell containing approximately five lbs of the powder that would go on to start his business h4831. That and 4350 were about the only slow rifle powders available. Circa late 40's to 60's. That powder is almost certainly extinct or now approaching 80 years old. More recent manufacture h4831 is faster than that post WWII surplus. Further a few years ago Hodgedon bought IMR powders. Apparently h4831 and imr4831 are now identical; whereas, previously, imr was faster than H.
So start low and work up.
My understanding fastest to slowest.
Imr4350》》h4350》》imr4831》》h4831
This is the truth. 61 grains of H4831 and a 180 grain bullet in a 30-06 makes a very nice hunting load.
61 Grains of IMR 4831 behind a 180 on the '06 may not sieze the bolt, but excess pressure signs will
be very evident. The two powders are about 2 grains apart for equal pressures. Dave.
Think you need to buy more reloading manuals. I have a old one with even higher loads then that for 4064. All things are not written in stone.
When I started reloading as a young fella sitting on my Grand Dad's knee, Jack O'Connor was still hunting and writing articles.
I find published data today is down loaded from what it was back then...Most all my hunting loads excluding smaller cartridges like the .223 are 1.5-2 grains heavier than the max loads now published.
From what I remember reading by Jack...I figure he would be proud.
I find published data today is down loaded from what it was back then...Most all my hunting loads excluding smaller cartridges like the .223 are 1.5-2 grains heavier than the max loads now published.
From what I remember reading by Jack...I figure he would be proud.
