Oh no a bear!!

[Boomer]

Personally I hate the 308. Can't tell you why but i've loaded for my buddies rifles. 165-180 gr performance is better than the larger bullets. The 308 just can't spit them fast enough for reliable expansion unless very close. A 200 gr round nose will turn your 308 into a 3030 class. Not a bad thing but know your ranges and drop charts
Personally I'd go the round nose interlock or 165 gr sst. Not sure if you could fit a 180 gr sst. At 308 velocity its a great bullet and will mushroom very nicely and dig deep

I prefer the .30/06 but I don't hate the .308, which after all duplicates .30/06 ballistics with mid-weight bullets, and does so from a more compact package. There are some dimensional realities which dictate the usefulness of any particular load or bullet choice in any cartridge. A short magazine restricts cartridge OAL, and barrel length has a significant effect on muzzle velocity. My 28" .308 target rifle spits out a 215 gr VLD at 2650, but the cartridge is so long that it must be single loaded; a minor disadvantage in a target rifle with a long lead. A rifle with a short 16"-20" barrel might actually do better with a heavier bullet, since a heavier bullet requires a smaller powder charge, and therefore the propellant gases develop maximum pressure sooner, so push the heavier bullet for a longer period of time. Thus the heavier bullet, fired from a short barrel rifle, has a higher percentage of the velocity it would normally exhibit from a longer barrel, than a lighter bullet can. That's not to suggest the lighter bullet won't have a higher velocity, it probably will, but terminal performance will favor the heavier bullet.

 

[H4831]

Don't you know that bear, moose and elk have mutated over the couple last years and are now immune to the anemic caliber you call 308. Anything below 30-06 will only make them laugh at your pittiful attempt to wound them. Better go 300WinMag and up to be sure.

I heard it in a gun store so it's true.


Damn, I forgot about that again!
I can't get used to these new beasts that hide behind trees, just waiting to gobble up a hunter as he walks by and if you get a shot away it just bounces off him, unless it's a urber slug from a 12 gauge!

 

[Cleftwynd]

I have shot bear with everything from a 3" 12ga slug at 10' to a 22 Mag (last fall) and they all died. A black bear is a THIN skinned animal with vitals like anything else. It's not a Cape buffalo, or a charging lion, it's a few hundred pound critter will claws, teeth, and powerful muscle, it's not an armoured tank bent on killing you. Anything that will effectively kill a deer will kill a black bear.

Grizzlies, Kodiaks and polar bears are a little different, but still aren't a panzer tank. Just don't ge their adrenaline up, and if you do, shoot straight and remain calm. The biggest mistake people make is shooting "in their general direction" and hoping a hit anywhere will stop them DRT. That doesn't even happen with a deer FFS.


EDIT: What's with all this fear of bears on CGN? Last year I drug a "not dead yet" black bear across the yard, he kept lunging forward to grab me, so I would let go until he stopped, then grab his rear feet and keep dragging him towards the deck. Other CGN members can back this up.

Moose in the rut are FAR more dangerous than any bear, unless you plan on getting between mama and cubs and fighting hand to hand.

Anything bigger than .224 will suffice, just use whatever you are carrying a the time. 99.99% of the time a bear will run away from you.

 

[oldblue69]

A well placed shot with any factory hunting bullet for a 308 will do the job. That said... (pulling up soap box)


IS the purpose of this gun an oh Sh!t a bear is really close, and I need to stop it from eating me/them...

Or a dedicated hunting rifle for bear? It makes a difference, you wont need 100 Yard terminal ballistics to be extreme if you are going to shoot the bear at 15-10-5-3-0 yards...
a well placed shot from almost any firearm will do the job. The smaller/slower your projectile the better you must be.

yes your .22 short out of a 3 inch barrel could kill a bear (the last 2" of that barrel better be stuck in the bears eyeball)

The problem lies with the area of exposed vitals of a predatory bear. head down straight on you can try for a shoulder shot then finish it later, but you need enough bullet penetration and mass retention to break the shoulder, shooting at is head would be like shooting the steel gong at your local range, it'll ring the bears bell but likely wont stop him long.

We teach for bears/ predators/ moose in close quarters. If you have time back away, not working get big and loud, not working get your party organized and out of line of fire, warning shot/less lethal, not working, lethal force.

in reality any time a firearm has been discharged and an animal has been killed, the animal popped up at less than 15m and the first shot was with lethal intent.

the other issue is quick follow up shots. you would be very lucky to drop a big bear in one shot in a rapidly developing situation.
Have a bolt gun, practice... a lot.
lever action, a bit more natural and quick for follow up, practice.
semi auto, well done. practice and hope it is 100% feed reliable in every weather condition you may be in the woods in.

we train with rifles, and Shotguns
we carry 12 gauge 870 police with slugs.

that said if your rifle is an extension of your body and you are a cool head in dynamic situations the firearm you are most familiar with and muscle memory lets you operate it without conscious thought, that is what you should be using.

my opinion is worth whatever value you give it and I'm OK with that.
C

 

[Cleftwynd]

We teach for bears lethal force.
C

Considering most places (other than grizz and polar, bears are FAR too numerous (thanks to left wing idiots), lethal is the ONLY defense that should be taught. You aren't just protecting your person, but protecting their prey.

 

[hawk-i]

Why would anyone say, "get a bigger calibre--" than a 308 for killing a black bear?
A 308 is more than enough for a bear, with any sporting bullet of 150 to 180 grains.

^^^ This

 

[medvedqc]

Don't you know that bear, moose and elk have mutated over the couple last years and are now immune to the anemic caliber you call 308. Anything below 30-06 will only make them laugh at your pittiful attempt to wound them. Better go 300WinMag and up to be sure.

I heard it in a gun store so it's true.

/sarcasm off/

not only in gun store, over here also lol ...

one day i have heard 7mm magnun is not enough for grizz so the 308 is really too low and slow lol ....

 

[Superbrad]

Lol..... That's not macho thinking.....

Nothing can be killed with a cup and core, bears need a .375 as a minimum..... Bear spray should be carried handy in a purse......

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure though.... I bait blackies at camp and wouldn't do so unarmed..... But being "armed" usually means the .303 camp gun as, unless there is an open season, it's th biggest boomer I have available....

 

[bigborefan]

Now this is not to hunt a blackie or moose. But to STOP it...

A .308 Win will not STOP a bear unless you brain it, or hit it in the spine. Nor will a 9.3 X 62, though for now it's my favourite bear gun. Almost any thing will kill a bear of small to medium size -- eventually.

My oldest son spent about 20 years in Africa and became a licensed big-game hunter. But ammo was very expensive, so he used to sit in a tree over a pond and kill warthogs that came for a drink. That was their protein. He shot them very carefully with .22LR, 40gr solids, in the ear-hole (brain shot). But he also said that didn't work on the really big males -- he found that out the hard way after chasing a big one around the bush for a couple of hours. I saw the skull that was poc-marked with .22-caliber holes.

If you want to just kill a bear (and they come in vastly different sizes and attitudes), use your .308 by all means. But if you want to STOP a bear bent on mayhem, use a 12ga with Brennekes or Challengers, or a .45-70 that I have stopped bears with in their tracks without a CNS hit.

I've hunted bears every year for the past 30, and they can teach you lots of lessons you will not get on a forum like this!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

 

[bshooter]

Contrary to popular belief bears are relatively soft animals and easy to bring down, not the armour plated beasts most people believe they are. That being said I am not advocating you fill them full of .22 rounds. Anything from 30-30 up is good enough for bears.

 

[PEKS]

If I have not mentioned it yet, I love all cartridges, as long as they are 308..

 

[GMC403]

I have shot bear with everything from a 3" 12ga slug at 10' to a 22 Mag (last fall) and they all died. A black bear is a THIN skinned animal with vitals like anything else. It's not a Cape buffalo, or a charging lion, it's a few hundred pound critter will claws, teeth, and powerful muscle, it's not an armoured tank bent on killing you. Anything that will effectively kill a deer will kill a black bear.

Grizzlies, Kodiaks and polar bears are a little different, but still aren't a panzer tank. Just don't ge their adrenaline up, and if you do, shoot straight and remain calm. The biggest mistake people make is shooting "in their general direction" and hoping a hit anywhere will stop them DRT. That doesn't even happen with a deer FFS.


EDIT: What's with all this fear of bears on CGN? Last year I drug a "not dead yet" black bear across the yard, he kept lunging forward to grab me, so I would let go until he stopped, then grab his rear feet and keep dragging him towards the deck. Other CGN members can back this up.

Moose in the rut are FAR more dangerous than any bear, unless you plan on getting between mama and cubs and fighting hand to hand.

Anything bigger than .224 will suffice, just use whatever you are carrying a the time. 99.99% of the time a bear will run away from you.

Is it not illegal to shoot a black bear with a Rimfire?,
And further to that, I assume there is more to the story of dragging a "not yet dead" bear across the yard. Doesn't sound very respectful.

Care to clarify?

 

[Boomer686]

I shoot all my moose and black bears with 150 grain in my .308: that being said keep it under 400m and shot placement, shot placement shot placement.

Finally, and as with any calibre, pay attention to shot placement and you will not have any issues.

 

[9.3mauser]

So i have a savage 99 that i love dearly so now i carry it as my camp/bush gun. It is a 308 and i plan to rechamber to 358 winchester once i get the money saved up. But for now i would like some advice on 308 "bear loads".
Before you say get a bigger caliber like 45 70, they didn't make a 99 in that caliber. Don't suggest shotgun. Already have a model 12 project yo fill that role.
I'm mainly looking at 200 grain bullets. I know they are accurate in my Savage, as my buddy had some be wanted to try. My main debate is between round nose jacketed bullets or cast round nose bullets. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Keep in mind that this is not a bear defence gun, more of a i have it close by so use it for bear gun. Thanks again guys!

Premium bullets are kind of wasted on the .308... it just doesn't turn up enough speed to require them. 180 gr. factory core-lokts would be fine.

For the .358, Savage used to chamber rifles in that calibre, so rather than re-boring/re-barreling your rifle, why don't you direct those funds towards finding an original already chambered for .358?

 

[oldblue69]

A .308 Win will not STOP a bear unless you brain it, or hit it in the spine. Nor will a 9.3 X 62, though for now it's my favourite bear gun. Almost any thing will kill a bear of small to medium size -- eventually.

My oldest son spent about 20 years in Africa and became a licensed big-game hunter. But ammo was very expensive, so he used to sit in a tree over a pond and kill warthogs that came for a drink. That was their protein. He shot them very carefully with .22LR, 40gr solids, in the ear-hole (brain shot). But he also said that didn't work on the really big males -- he found that out the hard way after chasing a big one around the bush for a couple of hours. I saw the skull that was poc-marked with .22-caliber holes.

If you want to just kill a bear (and they come in vastly different sizes and attitudes), use your .308 by all means. But if you want to STOP a bear bent on mayhem, use a 12ga with Brennekes or Challengers, or a .45-70 that I have stopped bears with in their tracks without a CNS hit.

I've hunted bears every year for the past 30, and they can teach you lots of lessons you will not get on a forum like this!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

you can hunt a bear with .308(there he is wait for the bear to present a high percentage kill shot profile) but for close in Reactive shooting "surprise!" a big Heavy chunk of lead that stays together going through ribs and ball and socket joints is your safest bet. Please do not depend on putting a .22LR through the cooperative bears ear.