OK, I'm convinced I NEED a.375H&H but, which one???
- Thread starter hesher66
- Start date
while im no more in Africa and while i ve seen a lot of PHs. i ve never met one that was looking for a PF or CRF (some dont know what it is.) but they were looking more for a tool working. i ve seen guides with double, PF and even CRF and it was always a tool working to bring meat at the camp, hunting or protecting staff, clients or any animals unhappy to see us in their kingdom.
in fact a little like here in NA despite some think we dont have here animals that can bite back.
and i dont see a lot of "fights" here in Yukon for PF or CRF but more again a tool that will bring meat on the table ...or help the hunters to fulfill his needs.
in the last outfitting consession i was working for, no guides had their personnal rifles (some countries are really not gun friendly ...) and it was mark V in 460, 375 wea or 378 on the rack. again a good rifle that is working it s not stamped CRF or PF ...
even if i seen some talkings about the CZ550 if you compare with the ZKK 602 then you ll see a real difference between them.
my best bet will be for the price a zastava with chambering in 375 ruger but this is not the asking nor the good 375 ruger i have in Hawkeye.
the most funny stuff i ve seen was a rem 700 in 458 win mag and it was working great even if i dont like them.
so again back to the OP take the one that fits you and never look back about armchair advices it will be your money and your time.
in fact a little like here in NA despite some think we dont have here animals that can bite back.
and i dont see a lot of "fights" here in Yukon for PF or CRF but more again a tool that will bring meat on the table ...or help the hunters to fulfill his needs.
in the last outfitting consession i was working for, no guides had their personnal rifles (some countries are really not gun friendly ...) and it was mark V in 460, 375 wea or 378 on the rack. again a good rifle that is working it s not stamped CRF or PF ...
even if i seen some talkings about the CZ550 if you compare with the ZKK 602 then you ll see a real difference between them.
my best bet will be for the price a zastava with chambering in 375 ruger but this is not the asking nor the good 375 ruger i have in Hawkeye.
the most funny stuff i ve seen was a rem 700 in 458 win mag and it was working great even if i dont like them.
so again back to the OP take the one that fits you and never look back about armchair advices it will be your money and your time.
I seem to recall an African PH (who by the way has shot more dangerous game that all the posters on this thread ever will) useing a Rem 700 .416 Rem Mag as his rifle of choice for cleaning up after others mistakes.
Who could this have been ? Surely He must have gotten himself killed a few dozen times right......... Wrong. It was and is Ross Seyfried, about the only PH that has never been trampeld , gored, or scratched up. TFF.
Who could this have been ? Surely He must have gotten himself killed a few dozen times right......... Wrong. It was and is Ross Seyfried, about the only PH that has never been trampeld , gored, or scratched up. TFF.
I recently re-read his article about that .416. It certainly wasn't an out of the box Remington. It had been tuned up considerably.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I have owned two 8mm Rem Mags (700 BDL and 700 Sendero) and two 375 H&H (CZ 550 and Win 70) a 416 Rem Mag, a 300 H&H and about 15 Marlin 450's, 444's and 45/70's...
The .375 were both purchased and sold quite recently.
I used to really like big thumpers, though I rarely hunted with them (except the marlins). I did shoot a fair bit of paper and gongs though...
My oppinion is just that. My experience is that I have not had an issue that stemmed solely from a rifle being either CRF or PF...
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Here's one of my favourite quotes with regards to Ross Seyfried, in response to "Where is Ross Seyfried?",
"He's probably out trying to break in a piece of water pipe or writing an article telling someone else how to. I can't believe I spent good money to read his dreamed up crap."
That is close to my opinion on the subject. For any argument, one can drudge up some peculiar group of exceptions. That doesn't mean they have it right, look for the consensus; in dangerous game hunting, it isn't the Remington Model 700 or push feeds in general either.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I didn't see dangerous game in the OP
That's the problem with the .375H&H...it makes a great moose gun, or anything-else gun. But then you get one, and as soon as you start handling it you start to think about brown bears, and cape buffalo, and lion, and elephant. (I need a smiley here of Homer Simpson drooling!)
The OP didn't mention dangerous game, and maybe he isn't thinking about it at all...but, eventually, he will!
John
The OP didn't mention dangerous game, and maybe he isn't thinking about it at all...but, eventually, he will!
John
Here's one of my favourite quotes with regards to Ross Seyfried, in response to "Where is Ross Seyfried?",
"He's probably out trying to break in a piece of water pipe or writing an article telling someone else how to. I can't believe I spent good money to read his dreamed up crap."
That is close to my opinion on the subject. For any argument, one can drudge up some peculiar group of exceptions. That doesn't mean they have it right, look for the consensus; in dangerous game hunting, it isn't the Remington Model 700 or push feeds in general either.
Ardent, what a relief! I've always been impressed by your thoughtful posts, and find myself agreeing with you much more often than not. When I saw a couple of your trophy photos, I was even more impressed...how nice to find such a young man with a good head on his shoulders, who was also able to express himself so well.
The fact that you are so totally wrong here almost comes as a pleasant change! I like Ross Seyfried, or at least his writings...although I suspect the man would be a royal pain in person. It was on the strength of one of his articles in G&A many years ago (when I was about your age!) that I got my first .340Weatherby, a chambering that grew to be one of my personal favourites. He was opinionated, but also a wealth of knowledge, some of it quite obscure.
But that's okay. As noted, you are still young...you'll learn!
And for the record, I do agree regarding your PF/CRF comment.
John
Here's one of my favourite quotes with regards to Ross Seyfried, in response to "Where is Ross Seyfried?",
"He's probably out trying to break in a piece of water pipe or writing an article telling someone else how to. I can't believe I spent good money to read his dreamed up crap."
That is close to my opinion on the subject. For any argument, one can drudge up some peculiar group of exceptions. That doesn't mean they have it right, look for the consensus; in dangerous game hunting, it isn't the Remington Model 700 or push feeds in general either.
Ross is acknowledged by many (some who can't stand him) as one of THE most knowledgeable persons on firearms on this globe period. He is also a word champion competitor in a firearms discipline as well.
garrattrich
Member
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
CRF advantage comes into play if you are on your back and have to chamber a round with the rifle at an odd angle or upside down. Try to chamber a PF upside down and you can have trouble.
IMO if you're upside down -> your PH is saving you, that's his job.
With either action practice, practice, practice. Know your system, its limitations, and how to run it efficiently. Maybe I should be out practicing rather than debating the action type lol.
Why no mention of optics. The optics are more likely to fail on a 375 than any bolt gun mentioned. If dangerous game is on the menu than I would be inclined to get something like a VX-7, zeiss, swarvo, etc and rule out the thing that will most likely give trouble when it matters.
Prairie gun traders has a gorgeous browning A-bolt medallion in 375 H&H for 995. I'm not partial to A-bolts but having handled this particular one I was impressed.
IMO if you're upside down -> your PH is saving you, that's his job.
With either action practice, practice, practice. Know your system, its limitations, and how to run it efficiently. Maybe I should be out practicing rather than debating the action type lol.
Why no mention of optics. The optics are more likely to fail on a 375 than any bolt gun mentioned. If dangerous game is on the menu than I would be inclined to get something like a VX-7, zeiss, swarvo, etc and rule out the thing that will most likely give trouble when it matters.
Prairie gun traders has a gorgeous browning A-bolt medallion in 375 H&H for 995. I'm not partial to A-bolts but having handled this particular one I was impressed.
There is a lot of wiener envy out there from guys that will never in their wildest wetdreams achieve what Ross has, with what seems remarkable ease.
Many years ago Remington, no doubt weary of hearing how inefective their extractor was , devised a test , their bolt vs a Mauser bolt. they turned extractor groves into both ends of a round piece of bar stock to mimick a cartridge with two heads. The Rem bolt was snapped over one end and the Mauser to the other and pulled on the bolts with with a hydrallic ram.
Anyone care to guess the outcome of this little test.
The Mauser extractor and it's retaining band parted ways with the bolt, and the Remington bolt and its tiny extractor lived to fight another day with no damage.I would think that i'am a Remmy slut but i'am not, i just like pointing out that the Mauser and it's clones are not the only viable choice.
a leupold VX II or VX3 in 1-4x20 or 1,5-5x20 as the 2-7x33 or 2,5-8x36 and even the 1.75-6x32 will do the job.
Garrattrich, in the field while in Africa or in northern Quebec i have seen some of the top notch brands you cited and sometimes the Leupold we had save the bacon. and i owned some of them too.
Garrattrich, in the field while in Africa or in northern Quebec i have seen some of the top notch brands you cited and sometimes the Leupold we had save the bacon. and i owned some of them too.
There is a lot of wiener envy out there from guys that will never in their wildest wetdreams achieve what Ross has, with what seems remarkable ease.
Many years ago Remington, no doubt weary of hearing how inefective their extractor was , devised a test , their bolt vs a Mauser bolt. they turned extractor groves into both ends of a round piece of bar stock to mimick a cartridge with two heads. The Rem bolt was snapped over one end and the Mauser to the other and pulled on the bolts with with a hydrallic ram.
Anyone care to guess the outcome of this little test.
I would think that i'am a Remmy slut but i'am not, i just like pointing out that the Mauser and it's clones are not the only viable choice.
i dont like them (rem 700) that s true but they work too.
I have a 375 H&H,Remington 700 from the custom shop.Recoil is like a push not like my 338.It will shoot ragged holes with the 260 Noslers.I had the 458wm and the 416 rem and also 358 Norma mag but I will be keeping the 375H&H.
Just find the one you like and buy it.I have had Sako's,Winchester's,Brno's,Rugers and Remington,They all were nice and worked very well.
Gord.
Just find the one you like and buy it.I have had Sako's,Winchester's,Brno's,Rugers and Remington,They all were nice and worked very well.
Gord.
Check out the 375 Magnum Website at http://webpages.charter.net/375magnum/
garrattrich
Member
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
Thats a good point medvedqc you are absolutely right. Thanks for pointing that out.
I guess my point was more to say that a good chunk of the budget of the OP should at least be considered for a solid optic. (and as you say, maybe a backup, QD rings?)
At this point in my life I can only dream about hunting in africa. I kind of feel like if I was going to spend the money to go on such a trip that a bit more money for premium stuff is well worth it if the trip goes smoothly. As you say, no product is infallible, even though those optic manufacturers would have you believe otherwise.
I guess my point was more to say that a good chunk of the budget of the OP should at least be considered for a solid optic. (and as you say, maybe a backup, QD rings?)
At this point in my life I can only dream about hunting in africa. I kind of feel like if I was going to spend the money to go on such a trip that a bit more money for premium stuff is well worth it if the trip goes smoothly. As you say, no product is infallible, even though those optic manufacturers would have you believe otherwise.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There is a lot of wiener envy out there from guys that will never in their wildest wetdreams achieve what Ross has, with what seems remarkable ease.
Many years ago Remington, no doubt weary of hearing how inefective their extractor was , devised a test , their bolt vs a Mauser bolt. they turned extractor groves into both ends of a round piece of bar stock to mimick a cartridge with two heads. The Rem bolt was snapped over one end and the Mauser to the other and pulled on the bolts with with a hydrallic ram.
Anyone care to guess the outcome of this little test.
I would think that i'am a Remmy slut but i'am not, i just like pointing out that the Mauser and it's clones are not the only viable choice.
I'm going to need to see that one, the test. I've just a few days ago read failure accounts regarding M700 extractors in Africa, and one's posted in this very thread as well by Gatehouse (and without re-reading, I do believe that one represented a pair of failures in the Zim PH qualifications). My good friend and PH has also had Remington and Weatherby fail in the hands of his clients, and strongly 'suggests' a free loaner Winchester M70 .375 to anyone arriving to his conservancy with one.
I googled and read forums, and can't find this test? Certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it also doesn't mean a heck of a lot until we can read it ourselves. If they did this 'test' in the open as I imagine it would be done, with two bolts standing alone outside receivers on this double ended tug of war 'case', well I think we can all imagine the situation there. The Rem 700 extractor is the snap over paperclip type, and doesn't work in conjunction with the receiver. The Mauser extractor works in conjunction with the receiver, where the receiver holds the extractor in place (and its band). Pulling on it in open air as a 'test' would be like comparison testing engines but removing half the cylinder head bolts from your competitor's engine first, because your engine only uses half as many. If that was the case the 'test' would be designed to have a known outcome, I'm hoping they did it right and had the bolts in receivers.
I'd actually like to find a cheap Remington and replicate this, I have a VZ24 Mauser with a shot out barrel that would be perfect. Wouldn't be hard to turn a 4140 double ended 'case', then put in between the two barrel-less actions and put a bottle jack between the two bolt handles. I have my suspicions which will still be working after, and the extractor alone won't be the only concern. The only mechanism to impart manual ejection force into the action, the bolt handle, is soldered on in the 700 as well. I suppose if I'm going to bash them, I better test them right? I'll hunt the EE for a cheap 700.
I agree.
A lab test with a straight pull is bogus.
The fact that they went through the hassle of setting up with a bottle jack, instead of just a strain gauge on the steel 'case-head' and a cheater bar on the bolt handle (like the actual primary extraction cylce would go) makes it rigged like an indian casino.
