Nope, just a regular AR wrench and I only tightened it down till it stopped at the end. It really didn't require much effort.
Ok...I'm gonna come clean....I need some help
- Thread starter Great Crouton
- Start date
Nope, just a regular AR wrench and I only tightened it down till it stopped at the end. It really didn't require much effort.
Did you put it back together, or what?
With quality advice like he was giving out, how could I fail again?
Ah well, every forum has em.
K, if NEA told you to use the Brownells clamshell, then I think there was some serious mis-communication happening. If you look at the description for the part on Brownells website it clearly shows and states in big bold letters that this item is not to be used on billet uppers or else you risk damaging the upper. Don't know which one exactly you looked at but I generally look around at several websites and research the item in question. Some more oversight on your part might have helped you out in this instance.
Although at this point I can't tell what exactly caused your original issue. Seems to be improper use of a mechanical device, but since this is NEA we can't rule out a defective part.
Although at this point I can't tell what exactly caused your original issue. Seems to be improper use of a mechanical device, but since this is NEA we can't rule out a defective part.
Welcome to the internet.
I told you how to do it without fancy tools or unnecessary steps in my post above. So have you tried that yet?
Lol....indeed.
No, not yet, thanks for those tips though. I have family staying with me atm so won't be able to try it until this weekend.
If you're stuck, give me a shout. I too use the clamshell and have done several billet uppers. The insides have been dremeled here and there so they can close - that is the important part of working with them. To do the muzzle device you should be using either a set of barrel vice jaws, that 'reaction rod' or in a pinch you can utilize a jamb nut.
stevey3737
Regular
- Location
- Southern Interior
Yeah that's kinda what I am getting at, it seems hard to believe the pin sheared off from turning on the flash hider, I have removed and installed many and while I always use my very cheap crappy tire plastic soft jaws it never ever really took much torque to line them up the pin must have been faulty or somehow got damaged on the barrel install?
First off you do NOT need a Geissele reaction rod or the Brownells to assembly an upper
I have used the clam shell type, the DPMS and the PRI upper receiver block ( my favorite BTW )
Some billet uppers like like the Vltor do not clamp perfectly but the reality is if it doesn't move you are GTG . I have don't lots of Vltors / Sun Devil etc billets
First off you need far more torque to shear your index pin and damage the receiver than the max barrel nut an certainly reasonable flash hider torque . This is why you don't "need" a reaction rod on an assembly
Interesting test on trying to make a Vltor front sight slip . See link below about 3/4 way down
http:// ww.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.optics2.html
They have to exceed 100ft lbs
So back to "needing a reaction rod" . Again, completely unnecessary for assembly ( other than barrel extension ) but on rare case I had to resort to it
The max torque of barrel nut is 80ft lbs...having said that I have rarely seen the need to go that high ( min is 30 and it should index properly way before 80)
Only once did I have to use another barrel nut to get index
I highly doubt the damage you experience was caused by improper clamshell . Even if you use the excellent PRI block (grabs the flat top or the takdown holes ) you would have still sheared your index pin
Not to insult anyone here but most people have no idea how much torque they are capable off on a nut or bolt !
I use a PRI barrel nut wrench and the DD ( I do lots off DD foreneds ) which is easy to use with a torque wrench.
It always surprises me how little effort it takes to pull 60 to 70ft lbs on a wrench
Hell, I've seen my 100lb sister snap a wheel stud off !
If you can't find someone to help you in Calgary , if you mail upper to me I can assemble for you
My Reaction Rod Adventures
If I need in excess of even 30 lbs to index flash hider I play with shim or crush washer . I have had the rare one that comes so close to indexing I exceed 30 but certainly nowhere near the 100ft lbs to shear the index pin
Unfortunately some yahoos that don't get this . My most recent need of the reaction rod was a used BCM upper I was installing a DD RIS handguard for ( need to remove flash hider )
Long story short, I could not believe how much torque it took ( should have know from the evidence of damaged wrench flats ) .
Tried receiver block first and made me feel uneasy when it took over 60 ft lbs and still didn't budge . Tried barrel vise right by the flash hider and even the best Brownells barrel vise was slipping
IT took two of us using BOTH the reaction rod ( one guy putting wrench to it to counteract my torque , AND a barrel vise on the barrel to finally break it free with a satisfying squeak
Turns out the guy Rocksetted the crap out of it too !
I have used the clam shell type, the DPMS and the PRI upper receiver block ( my favorite BTW )
Some billet uppers like like the Vltor do not clamp perfectly but the reality is if it doesn't move you are GTG . I have don't lots of Vltors / Sun Devil etc billets
First off you need far more torque to shear your index pin and damage the receiver than the max barrel nut an certainly reasonable flash hider torque . This is why you don't "need" a reaction rod on an assembly
Interesting test on trying to make a Vltor front sight slip . See link below about 3/4 way down
http:// ww.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.optics2.html
They have to exceed 100ft lbs
So back to "needing a reaction rod" . Again, completely unnecessary for assembly ( other than barrel extension ) but on rare case I had to resort to it
The max torque of barrel nut is 80ft lbs...having said that I have rarely seen the need to go that high ( min is 30 and it should index properly way before 80)
Only once did I have to use another barrel nut to get index
I highly doubt the damage you experience was caused by improper clamshell . Even if you use the excellent PRI block (grabs the flat top or the takdown holes ) you would have still sheared your index pin
Not to insult anyone here but most people have no idea how much torque they are capable off on a nut or bolt !
I use a PRI barrel nut wrench and the DD ( I do lots off DD foreneds ) which is easy to use with a torque wrench.
It always surprises me how little effort it takes to pull 60 to 70ft lbs on a wrench
Hell, I've seen my 100lb sister snap a wheel stud off !
If you can't find someone to help you in Calgary , if you mail upper to me I can assemble for you
My Reaction Rod Adventures
If I need in excess of even 30 lbs to index flash hider I play with shim or crush washer . I have had the rare one that comes so close to indexing I exceed 30 but certainly nowhere near the 100ft lbs to shear the index pin
Unfortunately some yahoos that don't get this . My most recent need of the reaction rod was a used BCM upper I was installing a DD RIS handguard for ( need to remove flash hider )
Long story short, I could not believe how much torque it took ( should have know from the evidence of damaged wrench flats ) .
Tried receiver block first and made me feel uneasy when it took over 60 ft lbs and still didn't budge . Tried barrel vise right by the flash hider and even the best Brownells barrel vise was slipping
IT took two of us using BOTH the reaction rod ( one guy putting wrench to it to counteract my torque , AND a barrel vise on the barrel to finally break it free with a satisfying squeak
Turns out the guy Rocksetted the crap out of it too !
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The tool you used is quite different from the tool they use. You have a clamshell block where they use the block that fits into the bottom of the upper receiver, somewhat akin to the way the upper fits a lower receiver.
FWIW all the issues you have run into have been of your own making. Nothing you describe is due to any NEA parts being out of spec. It is normal for the barrel nut to not line up perfectly with the gas tube hole. If you put enough torque into the barrel to shear the extension pin then I would bet you have twisted the aluminum upper receiver at the same time. The upper is not a very strong part and twists quite easily. There is a much better tool for assembling and torquing barrel nuts than the clamshell blocks.
It may be worth some consideration that you have ruined several hundred dollars worth of parts in your attempt to save $100 by doing this yourself. My suggestion is to cease and desist and simply pay someone to do this properly. You are extremely lucky that NEA didn't tell you to piss off when you asked them to replace a part you broke.
Just a little anecdote for you to drive that point home. Back when I was machinist in the large capacity shop, one of my main jobs was machining these multi ton valve castings. We used to tweak them around on the machine table to line them up using 1/2" threaded rod to push on them. It always surprised me how easily you can push a 5 ton block of steel with one hand and a regular length wrench.
Yep, established that a while back now.
I could do that, but then what would I learn? Doesn't work out the first time so don't bother trying again? I think that's a bad attitude to have at the first sign of a problem, no?
And ya, it will cost me to correct but that's my problem, not yours. Not sure why you need to point that out?
There are some in this thread that act like they've never made a mistake before.....
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- Location
- Vancouver BC
Another low budget option for clamping the barrel is a couple of pieces of soft 2x4.
Did you put that plastic insert into the upper while you had it in the vise block? It may seem chinsy, but it does help support the upper while torquing everything.
Good luck on attempt two, the only piece of advice I will offer is stop and walk away when you feel the need to torque the piss out of something. Go away for a bit, have a coffee and think outside of the moment. Can't remember how many things I've destroyed because I just kept going.
Did you put that plastic insert into the upper while you had it in the vise block? It may seem chinsy, but it does help support the upper while torquing everything.
Good luck on attempt two, the only piece of advice I will offer is stop and walk away when you feel the need to torque the piss out of something. Go away for a bit, have a coffee and think outside of the moment. Can't remember how many things I've destroyed because I just kept going.
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I actually didn't know it had a formal name nut a "reaction rod" is the best tool for assembling uppers. I have the Brownells version which I machined flats into so it can be held in a vice. This method isolates the flimsy aluminum upper receiver from the torque required to assemble or disassemble the barrel nut and FH.
Reaction rod seconded, but again not required. That said, if you buy one, you will very popular with your fellow AR builders...
Good luck to OP, hopefully some valuable lessons were learned through your experience and this thread. Never be afraid to ask for help! Even the so-called 'simple' things are hard or confusing the first time. Just remember that everyone screws up eventually including the pros - be happy you were working on your first, reasonably inexpensive rifle, and not something pricier down the road.
Cheers
Good luck to OP, hopefully some valuable lessons were learned through your experience and this thread. Never be afraid to ask for help! Even the so-called 'simple' things are hard or confusing the first time. Just remember that everyone screws up eventually including the pros - be happy you were working on your first, reasonably inexpensive rifle, and not something pricier down the road.
Cheers
While you are at it,..pick up a couple armourer's manuals and give them a good read from cover to cover...Before I even attempted to index a barrel on to a receiver I did a fair amount of digging,and reading...I found the USMC,and USAF manuals on fleabay...handy little books to have !!
