Ok, m305 plastic stock are junk. But why???

sametwinnie

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Why people say the factory plastic stock on m305 are Junk compared to fiberglass usgi? too soft, poor fitting or what else?
and if it's so terrible, any way to improve it?

I just bought a socom m305 and just wondering this fact. i cannot inspect the rifle at the moment since i just had a surgery to my right arm :mad::mad:
 
The US military re-enforced the gi fibreglass stocks by adding fibre glass. Maybe you could do the same. Look it up
 
I've shot mine with the plastic stock and its grouping very well. I don't think they are junk, and can be made acceptable. I'm going to fill the forend with reinforced fg resin and see if that stiffens things up.
 
Why people say the factory plastic stock on m305 are Junk compared to fiberglass usgi? too soft, poor fitting or what else?
and if it's so terrible, any way to improve it?

I just bought a socom m305 and just wondering this fact. i cannot inspect the rifle at the moment since i just had a surgery to my right arm :mad::mad:

The primary reason is that the stock is designed to make the rifle innacurate.

An M-14 is conceptually designed to have a gap between the stock ferrule and the ferrule plate at the rear of the gas piston assembly. This allows a minimum of 5lbs ferrule lip pressure to allow the barrel to go back into the same position after barrel flex and whip when the ferrule lip and ferrule contact point is greased.

The plastic stock is too long so that the ferrule and ferrule plate are tightly touching, dissallowing the proper design function of the rifle.

The fix is to remove the metal ferrule, grind down the plastic stock thus shortening it, then grind down the metal ferrule a corresponding amount and reattach so that there is almost a business card thicknes gap between the ferrule and ferrule plate.

However, the receiver bedding of the stock is also out of spec, and I have yet to see one where the required flex of a minimum of 5 lbs ferrule lip pressure is obtainable after the mod.

The next step then is to grind away at the receiver bedding area and re-bed with epoxy to bring the rifle into spec.

All a pain in the rectum when its easier to get a cheap G.I. fiberglass stock.
 
All a pain in the rectum when its easier to get a cheap G.I. fiberglass stock.

Which still needs a fair bit of work to make it usable with the M305. The selector cut-out will have to be filled or a dummy installed, and the spring guide pin cut out filled, the stock stiffened, the bedding done and probably the ferrule fixed too. The cheap G.I stock may be better than the Norc plastic stock, but its not a panacea. I'd shoot the OP's gun with a large selection of ammo to see how it performs, before making major alterations to the Norc plastic stock .
 
I am thinking the stock is fine for average shooter ie me but not so much perhaps for those who want small groups at range.
 
These are not nearly as soft and flexible as Savage stocks, or Hogue stocks, and people manage to make them work just fine.
 
"...by adding fibre glass..." And a metal heat shield in the forestock.
"...not so much perhaps for those who..." Just changing the stock won't make much difference. Like skeetgunner says, shoot it before you do anything.
 
Which still needs a fair bit of work to make it usable with the M305. The selector cut-out will have to be filled or a dummy installed, and the spring guide pin cut out filled, the stock stiffened, the bedding done and probably the ferrule fixed too. The cheap G.I stock may be better than the Norc plastic stock, but its not a panacea. I'd shoot the OP's gun with a large selection of ammo to see how it performs, before making major alterations to the Norc plastic stock .

The selector cut out does not need to be filled or a dummy installed to make the rifle shoot accurately. The cut out is only a cosmetic concern.

The pin cut out is a simple insertion of a piece of popsicle stick.

The G.I. fiberglass stock does not need to be stiffened to outshoot the black plastic norstinko (although it does help if you are building a national match rifle).

A G.I. fiberglass stock does not need to be bedded to out shoot black plastic norstinko, an un damaged G.I has in spec bedding surfaces to achieve the required minimum 5 lbs. ferrule lip pressure.

An undamaged G.I. does not require a ferrule fix.

As for shooting the black norstinko - you will find that the binding of the ferrule plate which dissallows the barrel to go back into the same position after each shot will give a wandering zero and varying larger group size as the gun gets hotter. This is due to the barrel getting longer as it heats up, thus changing the tension between the plate and ferrule, and playing havoc with barrel harmonics.

The M-14 was mil-spec acceptable if it shot under about 5 inches at a hundred (wood stock).
The G.I fiberglass in a properly tuned barreled action will do under 2 inches consistantly.

A match tuned M-14 is capable of sub M.O.A.

These are my observations from building and shooting them since the 1960's.

But you don't have to take my word on it - Test for yourself - then make up your mind.
 
The cut out is only a cosmetic concern.

Holes that allow unwanted foreign material into the trigger group and action are a tad bit more than a "cosmetic concern" for me. Although I concede it wont effect accuracy until the gun stops working. The accuracy of non-firing guns is rather moot. Crud in the trigger group that causes a disconnector issue is a completely different concern.

The pin cut out is a simple insertion of a piece of popsicle stick.

You could use duct-tape too, or a quick tack with some super glue or JBweld, but the point was, it still needs to be done; its not drop in and go.

o (although it does help if you are building a national match rifle).

Indeed.

an un damaged G.I has in spec bedding surfaces to achieve the required minimum 5 lbs. ferrule lip pressure.

An undamaged G.I. does not require a ferrule fix.

Is there a large supply of undamaged G.I. stocks readily available in Canada or too Canada? I thought these were becoming rare as hens teeth. I've seen too many beat up ones, I guess.

As for shooting the black norstinko - you will find that the binding of the ferrule plate which dissallows the barrel to go back into the same position after each shot will give a wandering zero and varying larger group size as the gun gets hotter. This is due to the barrel getting longer as it heats up, thus changing the tension between the plate and ferrule, and playing havoc with barrel harmonics.

I understand the part about harmonics, but I'm unclear as to how the proper ferrule tension remains constant on a GI stock, as the barrel heats up.

But you don't have to take my word on it - Test for yourself - then make up your mind.

Which was pretty much my advice back to the OP. Go shoot it, and lots; based on the OP's criteria, the Norc stock may not be a pressing issue or even the most pressing issue.
 
Holes that allow unwanted foreign material into the trigger group and action are a tad bit more than a "cosmetic concern" for me. Although I concede it wont effect accuracy until the gun stops working. The accuracy of non-firing guns is rather moot. Crud in the trigger group that causes a disconnector issue is a completely different concern.

I understand the part about harmonics, but I'm unclear as to how the proper ferrule tension remains constant on a GI stock, as the barrel heats up.


Nonsense !

According to your logic a MUCH larger hole exists on top of the receiver (a completely exposed action with a reciprocating bolt) that allows unwanted foreign matter into the entire gun until it stops working.

After the M14 full auto fiasco military armourers routinely removed the fun go fast bits and DID NOT fill the holes. Those rifles survived the mud of Nam with no problem, as do those in the sand box today.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the M1A stocks for the M305?

I like the look of them, but don't know if they are worth almost the same price as the M305 itself.

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http://www.alliedarms.ca/M305_M14_Accessories.php
 
Nothing wrong with the Archangel.
Great stock for the price and the range of adjustments will suit anyone.
Definite improvement over the standard plastic Norc stock.
A wee bit of shaving required to fit but Chalkriver has covered the install...with pics :)
Lots of pple have them and not a single moan ( that I'm aware of )
They can get a bit heavy depending on how much furniture you add on. Mine is over 14lb with scope and bi-pod.
It doesn't have the shoulder thing that goes up tho..........its got the shoulder thing that goes in and out.
Its not a Blackfeather or a JAE/Sage etc, but its a bloody good stock for the price.
 
Why people say the factory plastic stock on m305 are Junk compared to fiberglass usgi? too soft, poor fitting or what else?
and if it's so terrible, any way to improve it?

I just bought a socom m305 and just wondering this fact. i cannot inspect the rifle at the moment since i just had a surgery to my right arm :mad::mad:

Fire off more than 60 rounds in a aimed rapid fire shooting string and report back of what your groups look like from the starting to the end. After doing this you will soon see why.
 
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