I think we are confusing commercial and military success when the mauser is mentioned as "still lives on".....the last mass produced military mauser was what, the Yugo M48? Which was by then completely obsolete. Also obsolete at that time of course was the mosin, but it was still produced and issued in numbers by Poland and Hungary well into the 50's.......
OK, who is with me on this? Mosins Rule
- Thread starter Dosing
- Start date
Chuck3436 said:
Chuck3436, Good Work there. Man looks like we have a bunch of Reds here eh! I'm on pattens side, we should of rearmed the Wermarcht in 45 with their superior K98's and together finished off the Russians and their Ugly mosins.
The Mosins is a what ever rifle. And plain UUUGGGLLLYYYY TO BOOT. A Mauser K98 is a work of art and will take yur head off at the same time.
Later
K98's may be fun, but for the time being, I have a mosin. I find I am strangely accurate with it, and it generally suits me. I find it a suitable mix between sturdy abuse taking metal and surprisingly accurate simple design. If anyone wants to sway my views they have only to sell me their preferred gun to let me try out.
I watched the show, and don't recall the criteria for selection ever being stated. At that point I dismissed any hope of it being an objective evaluation and just tried to enjoy the show.
These Discovery Channel "Top 10" shows never seem to state criteria, and obviously on purpose. It's simple entertainment that panders to American viewers.
These Discovery Channel "Top 10" shows never seem to state criteria, and obviously on purpose. It's simple entertainment that panders to American viewers.
Chuck3436 said:
Ruger makes a falling block action to this day, it was a military success of it's time and pre-dates the turnbolt mauser designs. I guess that makes it a better more successful rifle then the mauser action by your standards......
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Then there was the magazine that left out the Lee-enfield as one of the top ten in favour of the french lebel. The only reason given that it was the first to use smokeless powder. A condition that lasted only a couple of years.
Now how does a rifle with a three shot clip and a straight bolt make it more significant than a rifle with a 10 shot magazine and a bent bolt????
Somone mentioned the Fins use of the noisey maggot. They used it because the russians involuntarily provided them with a large supply.
Now how does a rifle with a three shot clip and a straight bolt make it more significant than a rifle with a 10 shot magazine and a bent bolt????
Somone mentioned the Fins use of the noisey maggot. They used it because the russians involuntarily provided them with a large supply.
ROTFLMAO, no offence, but thats hooey. Revolutionary? since when has that been a criteria for a battle rifle, something thats going to get beaten around and abused while trying to kill others?Chuck3436 said:
If anyone wants to talk about revolutionary having any merit than the Mauser 98 in particular would have to be thrown out all together, it was nothing of the sort, let alone compared to the Lebel and its Balle D.
After all the 98 was nothing but a regurgitation of the 92-94-96 family, and offers nothing but name brand recognition. It has nothing special in it over a 96 in any way shape or form, including its already then passe 8X57 cartridge. If anyone is going to claim a Mauser is 'revolutionary' stay at the 1888 and leave it there. The 98 was nothing great.
Again, lets say the 96 continues to be used to this day in modified form then shall we? The 98 is a figment of peoples immagination. It is not in use today, pre-existing Mauser models may be harkened back to, but they and the 98 bare as much resemblance to the 'modern sporting rifle' as a Chevy Suburban does to a Daimler Benz of 1900. The 98s overly complicated bolt shroud is pretty much gone, as it is cheesy safety, its extractor etc. Little bits of the pre-existing Mauser desings still remain in service, but big whoop. That gives the 98 no realistic claim to being the great be all and end all of modern sporting rifles. And the 1914-17 had a way better safety, easily dissasembled bolt, and higher strength, so why not say the 1917 is the grandpappy of them all, with its side safety, and annoying blind magazine.Chuck3436 said:
The MN deserves a spot for beating the 98 to the gate, as well as being a tough rugged rifle, which when your life depends on it is a step up.
Dosing said:
It isn't part of the criterion for a battle rifle, but it is part of the criterion for choosing which battle rifle makes the top 10 list
No one is arguing that the mosin isn't a functional rifle, the argument is whether or not it belongs on a top 10 list.
Im just confused why you guys turned this into a m98 vs nagant thread.
I had to end up justifying the m98 here. It seemed to me that a lack of justifiable evidence for the MN required people to grasp at ideas by means of comparison when that was never the intended arguments in the first place.
Bringing in the merits of the other rifle was like trying to change the subject.
Thats teh only reason why i had to continue the m98 arguments, I still feel its somewhat irrelevant to the MN itself, but it got turned into a....
"Why the MN isnt on the list, and why the K98 is."
Just an FYI.
I had to end up justifying the m98 here. It seemed to me that a lack of justifiable evidence for the MN required people to grasp at ideas by means of comparison when that was never the intended arguments in the first place.
Bringing in the merits of the other rifle was like trying to change the subject.
Thats teh only reason why i had to continue the m98 arguments, I still feel its somewhat irrelevant to the MN itself, but it got turned into a....
"Why the MN isnt on the list, and why the K98 is."
Just an FYI.
Original List
1. AK47
2. M16
3. Lee-Enfield SMLE
4. M1 Garand
5. FN FAL
6. Mauser M98
7. Steyr AUG
8. 1903 Springfield
9. Sturmgewehr 44
10. M14
My List
1. AK47
2. M16
3. Lee-Enfield SMLE
4. M1 Garand
5. G3
The bottom 5 in that list are basically 2nd and 3rd place of their era's.
Really, the G3 spawned the MP5 which is THE sub-gun of the universe. The 98 and the mosin were basically obsolete well before WWI when compared to the competition (10 round SMLE). I know they were used successfully in WWII in numbers, but a cut down version of an existing obsolete rifle does not make it suddenly revolutionary. That was only done out of necessity.
I think these are the top 5 rifles of all times and were at the top of the food chain in their individual war era's.
1. AK47
2. M16
3. Lee-Enfield SMLE
4. M1 Garand
5. FN FAL
6. Mauser M98
7. Steyr AUG
8. 1903 Springfield
9. Sturmgewehr 44
10. M14
My List
1. AK47
2. M16
3. Lee-Enfield SMLE
4. M1 Garand
5. G3
The bottom 5 in that list are basically 2nd and 3rd place of their era's.
Really, the G3 spawned the MP5 which is THE sub-gun of the universe. The 98 and the mosin were basically obsolete well before WWI when compared to the competition (10 round SMLE). I know they were used successfully in WWII in numbers, but a cut down version of an existing obsolete rifle does not make it suddenly revolutionary. That was only done out of necessity.
I think these are the top 5 rifles of all times and were at the top of the food chain in their individual war era's.
If it wasn't for that obsolete rimmed cartridge, I'd rate the Mosin-Nagant design right up there in the same class as the Carcano and the later modifications of Gew 88.
Other obsolete (for 1891) features of the Mosin include:
- socket bayonet.
- sights calibrated in the "arshin" unit of measurement.
Other obsolete (for 1891) features of the Mosin include:
- socket bayonet.
- sights calibrated in the "arshin" unit of measurement.
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