OK, who is with me on this? Mosins Rule

[PerversPépère]

Obsolete?

If it wasn't for that obsolete rimmed cartridge, I'd rate the Mosin-Nagant design right up there in the same class as the Carcano and the later modifications of Gew 88.

Other obsolete (for 1891) features of the Mosin include:

- socket bayonet.
- sights calibrated in the "arshin" unit of measurement.

Calibrating in "arsins" or "paces" was a very ingenious idea for the epoch because it allowed any peasant soldier to measure shooting distances in advance simply by walking them and counting.
Sure, the socket bayonet was a remnant of WW1 but it was designed for the old M-1991. Just look at a late Finn M-39 and you'll see the bayonet is a modern bowie style.
The rimmed design of the Mosin's cartridge never was an inferior one.
That cartridge design had very modern dimensions long before anyone. Just look at its aspect ratio, taper and shoulder angle and you'll see a very good understanding of what makes a competent military cartridge.
Proof of this is the longevity of that same ammo; it is still used in sniper rifles and some very good light machineguns with a mechanism designed for rimmed ammo.
In fact, some UN troops in Sarajevo and Bosnia preferred these same 7,62x54R-fed machineguns (when they found one) to the issued NATO M-60 because they were almost stoppage-free.
Ever seen a belt-fed machinegun CLIMB on a belt?
Peter Kokalis of S.O.F. fame tried this one day by firing one while it was suspended by its ammo belt...
PP.

 

[Quiet]

The problem with rimmed cases is that extra care needs to be taken to make sure that a cartridge is never loaded into the magazine with the rim sitting behind the rim of the cartridge beneath it.

 

[H Wally]

I can agree with that. On the opposite side of the coin, given about an hour of shooting one usually figures out how to load without it jamming against the 2nd cartridge.

 

[BBq_Woa!]

I'm surprised they included the M16..
since, you know, it sucks.

I'm pretty sure it is a detracting quality in a military firearm when you put 12 rounds into an enemy soldier and he limps away returning fire..

 

[Tyler]

I'm surprised they included the M16..
since, you know, it sucks.

I'm pretty sure it is a detracting quality in a military firearm when you put 12 rounds into an enemy soldier and he limps away returning fire..

And you have the battelfield experience to back up that opinion?

The problem with rimmed cases is that extra care needs to be taken to make sure that a cartridge is never loaded into the magazine with the rim sitting behind the rim of the cartridge beneath it.

True, but millions of British, Australians, and Canadians had no problem with this in the Lee-Enfield or the Bren Gun, arguably the best LMG of WWII. Five minutes of training and that problem can be solved. Just load in front of the rear mag wall, and push back. I do the same thing with AR mags.

 

[Chuck3436]

I'm surprised they included the M16..
since, you know, it sucks.

I'm pretty sure it is a detracting quality in a military firearm when you put 12 rounds into an enemy soldier and he limps away returning fire..

Ive heard of that with rounds ranging from 7.62x39 to 8mm mauser. People getting shot multiple times and surviving. The only thing i can say to this is a few thigns ive read regarding 5.56 not having knock down power. 5.56x45 creates a horrendous wound to an enemy who shoots a few rounds, limps away losing gallons of blood only to be foudn dead a short ways away. Claimants of the .30 cal rifles often see a direct knock down of hit targets which is why they claim its better. Much like 9mm vs .45..... 9mm will kill just fine with the right ammo, as will .223, but the knock down wont be as dramatic.

Im sure this isnt the end all be all of cases but this is what ive heard for a general view of the 2, compared to what you may have heard.