Okay, MAYBE this is a stupid question...

Steve33

Steve33

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I have been out of the "real" firearms scene for a long time, so I am trying to read as much as possible before voicing my uneducated opinions. That said...

I don't understand why people would want to spend as little as possible on personal defense shotguns. If you are threatened to the point that you NEED to actually pull out a firearm... don't you want to have the faith in it to go BANG! when you need it?

I'm not knocking the cheap gear out there, and if you are buying it for fun, go for it. I just feel that if you are going hunting ducks, it doesn't really matter if your gun works, you are out having fun with the boys. If you are at the rifle range practicing, the results don't really matter....

If there is something attacking your family and the only thing that stands between it is you and your shotgun... I want the BEST DAMNED gun I can get my hands on.

Am I the only one that thinks this?
 
There's cheap, inexpensive, and totally overpriced... I have 2 of the 3 and here's what I know. My benelli M4 was really expensive ( perhaps too expensive) but I am 100% certain that it will do it's job when needed. I also have a Remington 870 which was 1/4 the price, and again I am 100% certain that it will do it's job when needed...I think that sometimes getting the less expensive firearm and using the extra cash for ammo to learn to be a better shot is the way to go... I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a few luxuries but some people just can't dish out $2500.00 on a shotgun and optic.
 
I believe that a weapon's reliability is a function of more than just inital cost, maybe something like:

1/3 Ammunition (for feeding)
1/3 Maintanance (and aftermarket parts)
1/3 Initial cost (overall firearm quality)

My 2 cents
 
And those points definately make sense. I'm not saying that cost = value, however there is a lot of truth in the old saying "you get what you pay for".

I had the unfortunate situation where a bear actually started to try to push in the door of my cottage. (Obviously, it wasn't trying hard but the screen door was destroyed.) My wife hates guns so all I had were pots and pans to bang together and scared it away. Even if I had a gun with me, I still would have banged the pots and pans first.

On a side note... My wife doesn't exactly "hate" guns anymore... she just doesn't like them. That and she WILL NOT go to the cottage anymore unless I bring one along...

I think I love that bear...
 
I think I agree with PBR and Haagen... I wouldn't buy a "cheap" shotgun (unless it was purely for kicks and fooling around with), but I can't afford a Benelli or any of the nicer shotguns. Still, I don't live in Bear Country, so my take on firearms is that they are more of a skill than a necessity.

It's like anything else: Rifles, handguns, cars, televisions, furniture, clothes... at the low end, it's easy to tell the shoddy workmanship, but it doesn't take much (relatively) to get into the "decent" and "good" range. Still, after a certain point, you're simply paying for the brand or a novelty... A $4000 television may be better than a $1000 television, but it really depends on the person whether those "improvements" are worth the $3000 difference. Do I really need an additional HDMI input, or yellow LEDs in addition to the standard RGB (I believe it's useless), or a remote that functions underwater?

Pardon my extreme ignorance on the subject (I've never shot either), but it seems to be the same as with the Benelli vs a Remington. True, a Benelli may be a superior firearm, but whether or not it's worth the additional investment is highly subjective.
 
Yeah it's like I say with anything, quality increases linearly and price exponentially.

So if the quality (or initial cost) is only one factor in operability, can you justify paying that extra couple hundread $$ more for one step higher in one of those catagories?

Maybe once I've won the lottery. Otherwise I'll be looking at the other equally important things more when I need something to save my life.
 
Steve33 said:
And those points definately make sense. I'm not saying that cost = value, however there is a lot of truth in the old saying "you get what you pay for".

I had the unfortunate situation where a bear actually started to try to push in the door of my cottage. (Obviously, it wasn't trying hard but the screen door was destroyed.) My wife hates guns so all I had were pots and pans to bang together and scared it away. Even if I had a gun with me, I still would have banged the pots and pans first.

On a side note... My wife doesn't exactly "hate" guns anymore... she just doesn't like them. That and she WILL NOT go to the cottage anymore unless I bring one along...

I think I love that bear...
Click to expand...

Best money ever spent could be on a bear suit rental and a two-four for a friend :) What a great story!
 
I believe the saying "buy the best that you can afford" applies here.
Another thing I've come to realize over the years is that I never regret buying something of good quality, however I almost always regret buying cheap crap.
 
The more basic a gun is kept, the more you know it will shoot. Factory ammo instead of re-loads etc...
 
can14 said:
The more basic a gun is kept, the more you know it will shoot. Factory ammo instead of re-loads etc...
Click to expand...

I agree, to an extent... factory ammunition is great, if you find a brand that'll work in your firearm every time you need it. I've had a few FTFs in my rifle using factory cartridges, and I've had a few failure-to-eject's in my handgun. If you know what you're doing, and are consistent, then reloads might be an even better option.

Other than that, I agree... when it comes down to it, the best "self-defense" shotgun would probably a SxS, simply due to the fact that it has the fewest working parts and the least likelihood of any sort of failure. However, the additional capacity of a pump is an important factor... unless you get a SxSxSxS (there was a post on this recently...).
 
It comes down to doing your research. For example, the difference between the norinco HP-9 and the Homeland Security model. Both appear to have the same parts at first, but research shows one to be a (parts interchangeable) clone of the Remington 870, and the other to be a cheap knock-off.

It's like would you rather buy a ford ranger or mazda b-series for a pickup?
 
Hawkshadow said:
It's like would you rather buy a ford ranger or mazda b-series for a pickup?
Click to expand...

Mazda... :D

You do raise a good point on "rebranded" firearms, but I can't really think of any. I'm still not sure, but I believe the Stevens and Norinco firearms are manufactured in the same factory, right? Still (maybe this is pure speculation) it seems that the Stevens is held in higher regard than the Norc. Even within the same brand there seems to be mixed reviews... take the 870 Express vs the 870 Wingmaster. From what I understand, a few people have had issues with the Express, whereas the Wingmaster seems nearly indestructable.
 
As I was told by my first sergeant and repeated exposed to after:
"Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder"

Pope_face is correct that after a certain point, value on consumer orientated products tends to be very much in the eye of the beholder. After all that $5000 TV has to be better than the $1000 model, because it is $4000 more...
 
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