Old 12 guage... Help on ID
- Thread starter Bear_Blade
- Start date
It is definitely made for black-powder pressures: that "3-1/2 TONS" is the working chamber presure in Imperial Long Tons of 2240 pounds each: 7840 psi.
The action is a Martini type, so it will take just about anything (within reason). It is likely that the gun will handle more pressure than what the Proof markings show, but it is best to stay on the safe side with something this old.
Can't read all the markings very well. Be very careful with chamber depth.
As to brass, Cabela's are the agents for the excellent Brazilian-made MAGTECH brass shotgun shells. Their brass is 2-1/2 inches long, comes 25 in a box for $22.95, can be mailed and reloads easily. It is available in several sizes, including 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 and 32. REALLY wish they would make 10 and 11, but, no such luck. They do look after your gun, though.
Hope this helps.
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The action is a Martini type, so it will take just about anything (within reason). It is likely that the gun will handle more pressure than what the Proof markings show, but it is best to stay on the safe side with something this old.
Can't read all the markings very well. Be very careful with chamber depth.
As to brass, Cabela's are the agents for the excellent Brazilian-made MAGTECH brass shotgun shells. Their brass is 2-1/2 inches long, comes 25 in a box for $22.95, can be mailed and reloads easily. It is available in several sizes, including 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 and 32. REALLY wish they would make 10 and 11, but, no such luck. They do look after your gun, though.
Hope this helps.
.
I found this:
After W.W.I, the Egyptian Government sought a weapon suitable for arming their police force. W.W. Greener of Birmingham won the contract with their submission of a handy, smoothbore Martini actioned shotgun with a full length wood forend. These shotguns were known as the Greener Mark I/14. The "14" referred to the bore size. One of the clever features of the new shotgun was that it used an off size 14 1/2 gauge straight sided shot shell. This prevented the weapon's use with commercially available shotgun shells. Thus, if the weapon fell into the wrong hands, it couldn't be used against the Egyptian Police. Greener referred to this cartridge as "14 bore for use in Mark I guns". These cartridges were made by Kynoch. Most were loaded with smokeless powder, but some have been noted with black powder loads. By 1922, over 30,000 Greeners had been supplied to the Egyptian Government. In the 1930s, it was discovered that stolen Mark Is were being used against the authorities by wrapping a thick piece of paper around standard 16 gauge shot shells in order to beef them up to 14 1/2 gauge! Greener answered this problem with the Greener Police Gun Mark III, Patent Number 463628/35. The Mark III could be ordered in three different chamberings: the original 14 1/2 gauge Mark I shells, standard 12 gauge 2 3/4" shells and a special bottlenecked shell for the Egyptians. The Mark III bottle necked shell was .782" diameter at the base, and was necked down to .740". Overall length of the shell was 2 7/8". The new bottlenecked form of the cartridge was enough to prevent the weapon's unauthorized use by the bad guys, but Greener went a step further by adding a large annular groove in the base of the shell. When a shell is chambered, two lugs protrude from the face of the breechblock and engage the annular groove in the base of the shell. This meant that the gun could only be fired if the correct, grooved shells were used. Kynoch and Service Armament Co. made shells for the Mark III Special into the 1960s. Mark III Specials are commonly seen for sale in the US$150 neighborhood.
You can read more with pictures here. http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/greenerpolice.html
Looks to me you have a MkIII 12 Ga 2 3/4" shotgun, Now I don't know if the pins have been removed to allow for reg 12ga shells. Get it checked out first.
After W.W.I, the Egyptian Government sought a weapon suitable for arming their police force. W.W. Greener of Birmingham won the contract with their submission of a handy, smoothbore Martini actioned shotgun with a full length wood forend. These shotguns were known as the Greener Mark I/14. The "14" referred to the bore size. One of the clever features of the new shotgun was that it used an off size 14 1/2 gauge straight sided shot shell. This prevented the weapon's use with commercially available shotgun shells. Thus, if the weapon fell into the wrong hands, it couldn't be used against the Egyptian Police. Greener referred to this cartridge as "14 bore for use in Mark I guns". These cartridges were made by Kynoch. Most were loaded with smokeless powder, but some have been noted with black powder loads. By 1922, over 30,000 Greeners had been supplied to the Egyptian Government. In the 1930s, it was discovered that stolen Mark Is were being used against the authorities by wrapping a thick piece of paper around standard 16 gauge shot shells in order to beef them up to 14 1/2 gauge! Greener answered this problem with the Greener Police Gun Mark III, Patent Number 463628/35. The Mark III could be ordered in three different chamberings: the original 14 1/2 gauge Mark I shells, standard 12 gauge 2 3/4" shells and a special bottlenecked shell for the Egyptians. The Mark III bottle necked shell was .782" diameter at the base, and was necked down to .740". Overall length of the shell was 2 7/8". The new bottlenecked form of the cartridge was enough to prevent the weapon's unauthorized use by the bad guys, but Greener went a step further by adding a large annular groove in the base of the shell. When a shell is chambered, two lugs protrude from the face of the breechblock and engage the annular groove in the base of the shell. This meant that the gun could only be fired if the correct, grooved shells were used. Kynoch and Service Armament Co. made shells for the Mark III Special into the 1960s. Mark III Specials are commonly seen for sale in the US$150 neighborhood.
You can read more with pictures here. http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/greenerpolice.html
Looks to me you have a MkIII 12 Ga 2 3/4" shotgun, Now I don't know if the pins have been removed to allow for reg 12ga shells. Get it checked out first.
From he description above, it sounds as if it could be possible to convert commercial brass shells to the special form, given that one had a box of brass, a lathe and a specimen of the original round to start with. Putting in the annular groove should not be too much of a problem.
Can anyone post photos of an original round in order that folks can see the problem/solution? This is one that I DON'T have!
Thanks.
From the markings on this gun, one would assume that it chambers regular 12-bore ammo. Martini breechblocks aren't all that hard to slip out.
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Can anyone post photos of an original round in order that folks can see the problem/solution? This is one that I DON'T have!
Thanks.
From the markings on this gun, one would assume that it chambers regular 12-bore ammo. Martini breechblocks aren't all that hard to slip out.
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It belongs to my neice's boyfriend, he got it as a christmas gift from his uncle. I beleive it is chambered for the straight tube brass. the only issue would be the rimmed end, it that is a unique configuration. I will have to take another look at it.
Ask and ye shall receive:
Profile - if you look towards the bottom you can make out the step in the brass
Base - it's quite a big channel machined around the primer pocket to allow the outer two pins to fall into, allowing the firing pin to travel far enough to hit the primer. I haven't actually taken mine apart, but I assume the firing pin is made with all three pins on one shaft, like a trident. Across the top it is marked "Greener"
