Old 7x64 load data

SuperCub

SuperCub

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I recently pulled the bullets and dumped the powder from a large amount of old Czech 7x64 ammo for shipping to another CGN member on the left coast of Canada. Like a big dummy I failed to weigh the powder charges and record those results as I had not planned on using the powder here. As it turned out the powder was in good condition and should be good to use.

Fortunately, the powder charge and type (Sm 2) along with the bullet weight was recorded on the boxes. With a bit of conversion from grams (grammes) to grains, it looks like the powder is fairly fast for this cartridge at about 4064 speed. I would have thought that 4350-4831 would have been more appropriate. I can't find any info on SM 2 powder. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Any thoughts on this powder being approx to 4064 speed?

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Playing around a bit with Gordon's Reloading Tool, using the data you provided, re; bullet weight and powder charge, but with 4064 powder, and it does not seem to produce excessive pressures. It would be a very rough guesstimate; bullet types won't be exact so I used whatever was of a similar weight, and case capacity would be the default of the program. Still, I think if you're looking for a starting point to work up loads for that powder in a different caliber, 4064 start loads should be ok.

7x64 + 154 Hornady + 47.1gr 4064 = 2,700 fps & 54667 psi.
7x64 + 173 S&B + 46.3gr 4064 = 2,600 fps, & 58703 psi.
 
9.3mauser said:
Still, I think if you're looking for a starting point to work up loads for that powder in a different caliber, 4064 start loads should be ok.
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That's what I thought as well. I shot some 30/06 loads a couple.days ago with 150gr WW PPs and had no problems using max 4064 loads. It actually was a good load for accuracy. I just want to.use this powder for sighter and pinker loads.
 
dan belisle said:
Wasn't SM2 a Nobel product? - dan
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bearhunter said:
SM2 is made by Saint Marks Powder Co. in Europe.

They make both Ball and extruded powders for the military and commercial loaders.
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it is strange as at the time those bullets and powder were produced it was under warsaw pact. i doubt a us company will provide any powder to the enemy ...

thank you again Paul for the hard work you did for me.
 
medvedqc said:
it is strange as at the time those bullets and powder were produced it was under warsaw pact. i doubt a us company will provide any powder to the enemy ...

thank you again Paul for the hard work you did for me.
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Read it again, the company is European.

It supples powder to European and US companies, especially government contracts.
 
bearhunter said:
SM2 is made by Saint Marks Powder Co. in Europe.

They make both Ball and extruded powders for the military and commercial loaders.
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Saint Marks powder is out of Florida, used to buy Thunderbird powder out of them back in the late 80's or so. Did you mean they had a factory in Europe make it for them? - dan
 
dan belisle said:
Saint Marks powder is out of Florida, used to buy Thunderbird powder out of them back in the late 80's or so. Did you mean they had a factory in Europe make it for them? - dan
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yes they had a plant in uk and one sub contracted one in belgium at the time but it was during nato/warsaw pact issues so as i said i doubt they were selling innocenty powder to the ennemy ...
 
I pulled some Czech 8x57 milsurp to check on the powder condition, my first thought was "that's IMR 4064"
 
dan belisle said:
Saint Marks powder is out of Florida, used to buy Thunderbird powder out of them back in the late 80's or so. Did you mean they had a factory in Europe make it for them? - dan
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medvedqc has it right.

I had several containers of their powder at one time and they sold to whomever it was legal to do so. The container had a half dozen different languages on it, including Russian and Chinese.

The real point of this discussion would be the type of powder it's closest to.

I would agree that IMR4064 would be as close as it gets, depending on which batch or variant it might have been and who can tell with 50 year old powders in a factory loaded cartridge???
 
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MiG25 said:
I pulled some Czech 8x57 milsurp to check on the powder condition, my first thought was "that's IMR 4064"
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when i visited prvi factory that is long time ago my dad told me that the spies were providing the composition to built whatever they needed so you might look like was the same but different builder ...
 
medvedqc said:
when i visited prvi factory that is long time ago my dad told me that the spies were providing the composition to built whatever they needed so you might look like was the same but different builder ...
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All sorts of Technical Aid gets passed around, IIRC the USSR received what I'll call "IMR" technology.

My guess is it's as close to IMR 4064 as sh*t is to swearing.
 
downwindtracker2 said:
Any one who used the Ammomart N-47 clearance powder, used Nobel powder made in Scotland. "2 grains faster than 4350"
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That's great powder. I still have a carton of it and use it exclusively for my 270Win with a 23 inch bbl. It gives me the best velocity/accuracy combination with 140-150 grain bullets.

I'm going to miss it when it's gone.
 
i asked some people in czech republic and the answer they gave was interesting there is no way they can answer as the reloading was reserved to a certain elite and not available to the regular peon so they cannot tell what kind of powder it was. very sorry about that.

many years ago they nput in most european countries a complicated way to reload and the quantity of powders, primers and bullets that you can store was very limited like in germany (where you need a reloader license) or france (powder quantity was limited and registered and stamped on your reloading booklet) it was a try attempt to keep your 100 rounds limitation on any restricted firearms like handguns or semi auto or military calibers.

back to the topic great to see all that knowledge shared here.
 
medvedqc said:
i asked some people in czech republic and the answer they gave was interesting there is no way they can answer as the reloading was reserved to a certain elite and not available to the regular peon so they cannot tell what kind of powder it was. very sorry about that.

many years ago they nput in most european countries a complicated way to reload and the quantity of powders, primers and bullets that you can store was very limited like in germany (where you need a reloader license) or france (powder quantity was limited and registered and stamped on your reloading booklet) it was a try attempt to keep your 100 rounds limitation on any restricted firearms like handguns or semi auto or military calibers.

back to the topic great to see all that knowledge shared here.
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Thanks Phil .... I'm going to use it up as 4064 and not slower to be safe. Plinkers and sighter loads will work fine.

There was almost 1.5lbs so it will go to good use.
 
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