Old Ballistic Tips - The Stories Are NOT Exaggerated!!!

I don't think there is really a bullet problem here as much as a shot placement problem...many many years ago I realized if you don't want to waste a good portion of the meat simply DON'T shoot the animal in the shoulder...take it behind the shoulder and mostly the only damage will be a rib or two.
Happy hunting!
 
BUM, I have had similar results with the ballistic tips. They are great 400 yards out, but anything closer is sometimes unpredictable. When you were down here, you shoulda called me, I needed someone to hunt deer with! Plus, it's handy to have a guy your size along for dragging out the big deer!
 
BT's

Way back in 1990, I loaded some 165gr's into my .30-06. I'd read about the "hot,new" bullet from Nosler and couldnt wait to try them. I was hunting my Godfathers property in Farlton,Que. Lots of does but few bucks until late first week when a decent 4X4 was spotted about 100yards away. He was at a brisk walk headed down the hardwood ridge I had my ground blind in.
First shot I pulled a bit forward and connected neck/shoulder area. He dropped instantly, tail twitched and that was it. Put another for insurance into ribs. Upon inspection both bullets shed jackets on impact causing nasty surface wound about 1/2" deep then drilled the core completely through producing clean 1/4" size holes on the offside. Took a really big 4X5 a few days latter with same results, but at 18 yards. Two dead deer but have never used BT's since.
Geoff
 
archie_james_c said:
It boggles my mind that with the technology we have (CDS dials, laser rangefinders, kestrels, synthetic hunting clothes, gore-tex, carbon stocks, custom barrels) that people still run cup and core bullets. Im as guilty as the next as I ran C&C's this year too....never again though.
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The vast majority of game continues to be taken with simple cup and core bullets, because the are inexpensive and proven to work.

I've got some fancy bullets in my reloading supplies, but I don't hesitate for one second to shoot anything with a cup and core bullet. To be honest, TSX's, GMX's and Failsafe's are getting less and less use at my house lately, as I'm mostly shooting bulk cup and core bullets, and more recently, cast lead! :eek:
 
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Bring back CIL Sabre tips or CPE.............Harold..........The Nosler SB was also a grenade under 100 yards......had an exit wound in a mulie buck's ribcage you could stick your head into and not get your ears wet
 
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I must agree shot placement is crucial. Shoulder shots tend to destroy a lot of meat. Not only is the bullet causing damage but so is all the bone you are pushing through the bullet path. Head , neck or behind the shoulders through the lungs are much better choices when broad side. For a head on shot I always point to the neck under his chin. If he runs away I am confident it was a miss because a hit in the neck causes the animal to drop like a sack of potatoes. Just my opinion. Less of a bullet issue and more of a shot placement issue
 
You just can't allway predict what a bullet will do, Ive had 240 gr. bullets out of a .444 fail to go through an 80 lbs. whitetails chest and the same bullet and load wind up under the skin of an elk. Ive seen a 6.5x55 c.i.l kksp come apart on the same size deer, which was a shocker, all were chest shots at 50 or so yards all were loaded to standard velocity or were factory loads. Nothing got away but there was lots of meat lost. I always thought Elmer Keith was a great bull####ter(and still do) But I've had better results with cast flat point in .44 cal. Still puzzled about the 6.5 . A friend has had great success with 140 s speer ,not premium bullets.I do know that the .44 cast put 1,1/2" hole through both sides and the animals don't go as far as the ones with 3" holes 1/2 way through
 
pr connection said:
I must agree shot placement is crucial. Shoulder shots tend to destroy a lot of meat. Not only is the bullet causing damage but so is all the bone you are pushing through the bullet path. Head , neck or behind the shoulders through the lungs are much better choices when broad side. For a head on shot I always point to the neck under his chin. If he runs away I am confident it was a miss because a hit in the neck causes the animal to drop like a sack of potatoes. Just my opinion. Less of a bullet issue and more of a shot placement issue
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Unless it doesn't. There are lots of places in a deer's head and neck that will produce hideous wounds that will cause death in days or weeks, but which will not stop it from running like a deer. Your faith that it is either a dead deer or a clean miss is just misplaced.

I do not recommend neck or head shots unless you know what I said is true, and the animal is close enough that you know you can hit the very small targets in those areas that DO cause it to drop like a sack of potatoes.
 
To be clear, I've shot a lot of animals through the shoulders over the years, especially in Africa where the vitals are further forward and shots on the shoulder are the way to go. I have never seen this sort of damage with any other bullet. Of course, had I shot the animal through the back of the lungs and liver the result would have been much less wasted meat, but would I have seen decent penetration with such a fragile bullet? I am absolutely confident in asserting that had I been using a more stoutly constructed bullet that the results of the shoulder shot would have been much different. The high-shoulder shot on my Dad's deer showed little penetration (only enough to paralyze, not to kill) and amounted to a large, ghastly, surface wound. A better constructed bullet would have done more damage to the spinal cord and would have been instantaneously fatal, rather than requiring a second shot.

I agree with the poster that uses then in his 7x57. Probably a very good deer bullet at that velocity. Tacking another 400 FPS onto it likely pushed the bullet well past it's engineering and when coupled with the shot placement they ended up giving the results that they gave.

I'll still use these bullets up, as practice ammo or for coyotes, but they are done being deer bullets in this rifle.
 
The ballistic tips are a real work saver. Shoot a deer through the shoulders and it will only take a few minutes to bone out whats left. You won't have to ask anyone whether you hit it or not either.
 
Dogleg said:
The ballistic tips are a real work saver. Shoot a deer through the shoulders and it will only take a few minutes to bone out whats left. You won't have to ask anyone whether you hit it or not either.
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I told my brother that it would be like an RPG. He was a doubter...:D
 
BigUglyMan said:
I agree with the poster that uses then in his 7x57. Probably a very good deer bullet at that velocity. Tacking another 400 FPS onto it likely pushed the bullet well past it's engineering and when coupled with the shot placement they ended up giving the results that they gave.

I'll still use these bullets up, as practice ammo or for coyotes, but they are done being deer bullets in this rifle.
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I kinda got the impression that you already new this in your OP, pushing the old style NBT's @ magnum speeds causes WAY too much damage. My brother found this out a couple years back the hard way as well. Congrats on the hunt & good luck using these bullets up on coyotes & general practice, it should be a blast (pun intended)!! :sniper:

CK82
 
There are lots of places in a deer's head and neck that will produce hideous wounds that will cause death in days or weeks, but which will not stop it from running like a deer. Your faith that it is either a dead deer or a clean miss is just misplaced.
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+1 I have tracked a few deer shot in the neck that either required follow up shots, or went a long ways before dying.
 
stubblejumper said:
+1 I have tracked a few deer shot in the neck that either required follow up shots, or went a long ways before dying.
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Grazing the side of the neck or cutting his thoat is not a a quality neck shot , it's a miss. And you are right, it will run a long ways. A good quality head or neck shot and that deer will drop. I have been hunting on my own for close twenty years now and typically shoot two to three deer a year so I ain,t blown smoke here. I am speaking from real life experience.
 
Grazing the side of the neck or cutting his thoat is not a a quality neck shot , it's a miss. And you are right, it will run a long ways. A good quality head or neck shot and that deer will drop. I have been hunting on my own for close twenty years now and typically shoot two to three deer a year so I ain,t blown smoke here. I am speaking from real life experience.
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A miss doesn't leave an animal to die a lingering death, but a less than perfect neck shot can. I have been hunting for almost forty years myself, and in a typical year, I generally kill two or three big game animals. I am also speaking from real life experience.
 
pr connection said:
Grazing the side of the neck or cutting his thoat is not a a quality neck shot , it's a miss. And you are right, it will run a long ways. A good quality head or neck shot and that deer will drop. I have been hunting on my own for close twenty years now and typically shoot two to three deer a year so I ain,t blown smoke here. I am speaking from real life experience.
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How about shooting off the lower jaw. Is that a miss? Or what about a shot that mangled the esophagus leaving no way to eat or drink, and obvious difficult breathing. Is that a miss? I encountered another that had been shot right through the sinus cavities just below the eyes. All those animals were still alive when I saw them. They were in absolute agony and had been for some time. I've been hunting for 55 years (I'm not sure what "hunting on my own" means). I'm speaking from real life experience.

Head shots are spectacular when they work. They are horrifying when they almost miss. I just can't understand why anyone would deliberately shoot at a small target when there are much bigger and very lethal ones easily available. I ain't blowing smoke here.
 
Well since you both have many more years experience then me you probably do the same as me. Every time I shoot at any animal wether it drops on the spot or runs away I go look and spend a fair amount of time looking for sign of that missed shot. That s**tty neck shot will leave me many clues on where to start looking. Regardless of all our opinions here I still believe a well placed shot is more important then wether the bullet is a nossler partition or a hornady sp or any other type or projectile. And for the record at a range of hundred yards or less I will take a lean and shoot for the head or neck. I have had great success so far and have lost zero animals. Oh and also the deer here we are shooting weigh 60 pounds on the hook if he's big. So shot placement is of utter importance. The op stated he thought the ballistic tip was the cause of all the damage though the shoulders. My opinion is was shot placement
 
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pr connection said:
Regardless of all our opinions here I still believe a well placed shot is more important then wether the bullet is a nossler partition or a hornady sp or any other type or projectile.
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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But you are wrong. Given the same POI a TSX or NPT will cause less damage than a Ballistic Tip.

And for the record at a range of hundred yards or less I will take a lean and shoot for the head or neck.
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We have already established that this is irresponsible.

The op stated he thought the ballistic tip was the cause of all the damage though the shoulders. My opinion is was shot placement
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You are correct that had I shot the animal further back I would not have had the same meat damage. But the flip side of that is that had I been using a Partition/GMX/TSX/A Frame etc. the construction of the bullet would have resulted in less meat damage. Not "No" damage, but "Less". The construction of the bullet is the determining factor with regard to damage to the meat. There is no debate to this argument.

As the Dothraki say "It is known".
 
A deeper penetrating bullet will #### up both shoulders not just one.

Nobody ever thinks of that one though.


Same with some angles where a deep penetrator makes it through to the guts and you have a mess.

Even still everybody wants end to end penetration on their 100lbs white tail doe.
 
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