Old South Bend lathe...
- Thread starter quinnbrian
- Start date
LOL Mine does too.I tried to get a pic of it..... but its right at the end of the bed, just below the tail stock, in one of the rounds, where the leg meet the bed. It's there, but some of the color is gone, hard to see.
That what I was thinking ,that's why I included the pic , with the chuck off. Best news I've had all day!!
Just "played with it a little,everything works great,needs a good cleaning. Man I like this little lathe, almost everything you need in a small machine.
Can't find a broken tooth anywhere, everything is tight,but will get a better look at it in the next couple day. Ho, it does need a new cover for the belt drive, and yes a new belt is in order.Should clean up nice.
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Some rust removal here and there and some general cleaning and dare I suggest a good scrub with some strong degreaser detergent and new paint would doll that machine up right quick.
How does the bed look for wear in front of the chuck?
How does the bed look for wear in front of the chuck?
your lathe has been fitted with much newer, and probably diametrical reading cross feed dial(and probably screw) as well as the compound dial and screw. I have owned and or flipped around 20 Southbend lathes, and still own a British version of the 9", a Boxford VSL 500.
The bed "looks" good, will know more tomorrow.Yes a good clean up and a lot of paint will make it look new again.
I've got 4 month off in the winter, so it'll be a good project
Yes it looks like it has had some , upgrades over the years. I was thinking of putting a variable speed motor on it. But I think just a good clean up will do for know.
So I guess $500.00 wasn't to much for it
#1bcshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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My old SB still comes in handy when I need it
That is awesome!
The dinosaur I have been playing with is an old 9" that looks like the one in this ad.
I'll have to look for the placard.
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Ok so I took the tail stock all the way off and look what I found on the other side of the bed...
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So I tried to date it...from what I can find ,it was made sometime between 1944 and 1947, does that look good to anyone? Also there are some letter to the far right in the pic, would anyone know what they mean?
The good about the lathe:
everything works and is very tight, I think it's already went through a refurb...newer dials,everything very tight..
The bad:
I'm in need of the top cover and end pieces,so if anyone know where I could get them , that would be great. And I also need the little tray the goes on top of the quick change gear box.
And I might have a gear(belt pulley size) problem. It doesn't seem to run slow enough....on the slows speed setting the carriage seem to go too fast. I've got all the lever, as they should be,....i think...., on the end of the lathe the button is in, the in position, the level on top of the gear box is to the right as far as it goes.And the lever on the bottom, is on the 224 thread per inch spot.
The motor is a 1725 rpm and I don't know if the pulleys are the right size....I think I need some help!! Did they come with a 1725 rpm motor, or a 3450rpm motor, and does anyone know what size pulleys that they ,came from the factory?
Also it came with a 4 place turret/tool holder post, and I'm going to put it back to the old style , saddle style, so if anyone needs ,or wants to trade from one, it'll be up for grabs.
And a chip tray would be nice
So I tried to date it...from what I can find ,it was made sometime between 1944 and 1947, does that look good to anyone? Also there are some letter to the far right in the pic, would anyone know what they mean?
The good about the lathe:
everything works and is very tight, I think it's already went through a refurb...newer dials,everything very tight..
The bad:
I'm in need of the top cover and end pieces,so if anyone know where I could get them , that would be great. And I also need the little tray the goes on top of the quick change gear box.
And I might have a gear(belt pulley size) problem. It doesn't seem to run slow enough....on the slows speed setting the carriage seem to go too fast. I've got all the lever, as they should be,....i think...., on the end of the lathe the button is in, the in position, the level on top of the gear box is to the right as far as it goes.And the lever on the bottom, is on the 224 thread per inch spot.
The motor is a 1725 rpm and I don't know if the pulleys are the right size....I think I need some help!! Did they come with a 1725 rpm motor, or a 3450rpm motor, and does anyone know what size pulleys that they ,came from the factory?
Also it came with a 4 place turret/tool holder post, and I'm going to put it back to the old style , saddle style, so if anyone needs ,or wants to trade from one, it'll be up for grabs.
And a chip tray would be nice
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The trays can be done by yourself from some sheet metal or for not a LOT of money from a local fabrication shop. I'd suggest that you should be able to tin bash a tray for the QC box yourself. For a chip tray I'd suggest that you find a local fabrication shop and take a sketch into them showing a basic pan with 45° bent up edges. Get them to weld the corners or silver solder them yourself and then shape the joints. You'll also need to cut out the openings for the power belt from the pedestal and drill holes for the tail end legs. But if my own sheet metal bench top I had done for me locally is any indication you should be able to get the tray done for less than $100. That may seem like a lot but if you use 12Ga metal it's not cheap any more. And they have a rather expensive shear and press to do the cuts and bends that you don't have. So it's not bad money.
The motor drive pedestal came from the factory and I find it hard to believe that the pulleys would have been replaced. The head stock and counter shaft in the cabinet are flat belt pulleys so I seriously suspect that they are stock. No one switches out stuff like that. It's possible that if there is a single pulley on the motor that it might be new. Often the motor side of the jack shaft will have a two step pulley and the motor would have a matching two step pulley. That sets the high or low intermediary speeds between the usually big jumps of the flat belt and cone pulleys. So it SHOULD have 6 direct drive speeds. After that you engage the back gear for seriously slow stuff. If you are sure head stock is running too fast then look at the pulley on the motor. Also knowing the speeds of the placard or from a manual you can download it should tell you what each of the speeds is supposed to be. And from the sizes of the pulleys you can calculate the ratios and figure out if it's right or not.
Of course the gears on the back of the head stock and the selection of the levers then controls the feed shaft. If the carriage advances too fast then it's likely that you are using the threading lever instead of the power feel lever. The control for engaging the threading will be the lever on the right side of the apron face. The knob low and middle is likely the engagement "brake" that runs at the slower advance rate noted by the decimal numbers. My father's old large SB used such a quick lock brake "knob" that would tighten something inside the apron to engage the advance. I believe the idea is that you can tighten it to some degree to get your advance but if not overly tight it can slip a little if the cutting load is too high or if the carriage hits something it isn't supposed to hit.
The threading lever isn't also the advance lever. That should become rapidly obvious when you look at the threads per inch and calculate what the feed rate for them is and then look at the number for the advance per turn in small numbers below the TPI number. For example 20TPI equates to .050 feed rate. Yet the stated feed rate for that gear box setting is supposed to be only .0167. A BIG difference. So try that thing that looks like a water faucet knob. I'll bet that's what you are missing.
The motor drive pedestal came from the factory and I find it hard to believe that the pulleys would have been replaced. The head stock and counter shaft in the cabinet are flat belt pulleys so I seriously suspect that they are stock. No one switches out stuff like that. It's possible that if there is a single pulley on the motor that it might be new. Often the motor side of the jack shaft will have a two step pulley and the motor would have a matching two step pulley. That sets the high or low intermediary speeds between the usually big jumps of the flat belt and cone pulleys. So it SHOULD have 6 direct drive speeds. After that you engage the back gear for seriously slow stuff. If you are sure head stock is running too fast then look at the pulley on the motor. Also knowing the speeds of the placard or from a manual you can download it should tell you what each of the speeds is supposed to be. And from the sizes of the pulleys you can calculate the ratios and figure out if it's right or not.
Of course the gears on the back of the head stock and the selection of the levers then controls the feed shaft. If the carriage advances too fast then it's likely that you are using the threading lever instead of the power feel lever. The control for engaging the threading will be the lever on the right side of the apron face. The knob low and middle is likely the engagement "brake" that runs at the slower advance rate noted by the decimal numbers. My father's old large SB used such a quick lock brake "knob" that would tighten something inside the apron to engage the advance. I believe the idea is that you can tighten it to some degree to get your advance but if not overly tight it can slip a little if the cutting load is too high or if the carriage hits something it isn't supposed to hit.
The threading lever isn't also the advance lever. That should become rapidly obvious when you look at the threads per inch and calculate what the feed rate for them is and then look at the number for the advance per turn in small numbers below the TPI number. For example 20TPI equates to .050 feed rate. Yet the stated feed rate for that gear box setting is supposed to be only .0167. A BIG difference. So try that thing that looks like a water faucet knob. I'll bet that's what you are missing.
Have you got the Back gear engaged or no?
The back gear is used for slow speeds. Should be able to get down to 30 to 60 rpm, depending on the pulleys in use.
To engage the back gear, open the top cover on the headstock, look at the biggest gear there. That is the bull gear. On the side of the bull gear, there should be a pin that pulls out, or a lever that flips over, which disengages the gear from the spindle.
With the gear disengaged, then look for the lever that moves the Back Gears (the two gears on one shaft, behind the spindle), in to engagement with the two gear on the spindle.
Be aware that with the back gears engaged, and the pin in, the spindle is locked solid. Got to do both to get the back gears working correctly.
That should get you access to another range of low speeds, with very high torque available. The low speeds make threading less stressful. The torque can be used to move some pretty heavy cuts, if you need to move a bunch of metal.
Oh yeah. Check your spindle diameter at the other end of the spindle from the chuck. Usually, the chuck end has a Morse Taper to it, which will make the end larger than it will pass through.
Cheers
Trev
The back gear is used for slow speeds. Should be able to get down to 30 to 60 rpm, depending on the pulleys in use.
To engage the back gear, open the top cover on the headstock, look at the biggest gear there. That is the bull gear. On the side of the bull gear, there should be a pin that pulls out, or a lever that flips over, which disengages the gear from the spindle.
With the gear disengaged, then look for the lever that moves the Back Gears (the two gears on one shaft, behind the spindle), in to engagement with the two gear on the spindle.
Be aware that with the back gears engaged, and the pin in, the spindle is locked solid. Got to do both to get the back gears working correctly.
That should get you access to another range of low speeds, with very high torque available. The low speeds make threading less stressful. The torque can be used to move some pretty heavy cuts, if you need to move a bunch of metal.
Oh yeah. Check your spindle diameter at the other end of the spindle from the chuck. Usually, the chuck end has a Morse Taper to it, which will make the end larger than it will pass through.
Cheers
Trev
Man...you must have spent alot of time around one of these lathe LOL...good for me
I have everything as it should be(lever in the right places).The top pulley is 5" and everything I see(in pics) looks alot bigger and its only a single and the botton pulley is a double, with the inside one being 3.5" and the outside one is 2.5'
Maybe the pic will help
Thanks for everyones help/suggestions.
Brian
The guy I bought the lathe off of , Has a big shop. Like a 12 foot metal break the will break a sheet of 1/8 metal@8 feet long with know problems, a shear that will take an 8 foot sheet, etc....He told me not to buy this lathe from him, he'd find me a big and newer lathe, but I said no...this will work for me
...because I've always want a little SB.Thanks for the offer to help build the trays, I think he'll let me run the parts/make the parts for cost, I've known him for a long time...great guy.
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Yep the back gear is in place, with the pin pulled (Thanks BCRider for the link for the manual) I think its the pulley setup.I down load everything I can find (manual wise) And they don't come out and say what size the upper pulleys are...just the lower( on the motor) ones.
Cheers
Brian
The first thing I would want to know is if the ways are hardened or not and how much wear there is to them. Cut a test bar after you check the leveling of the lathe and the alignment of the head and tail stock bores to each other. Inspect the spindle taper for burrs and dirt, insert a plain steel taper and turn the point true to the spindle, then check the tailstock spindle, insert a good quality taper and bring them up nose to nose, adjust the tailstock to align the points. You'll want a proper machinists level to get the lathe level so that the bed is not being forced to twist or bend by uneven footings. After that's all done you can cut a test bar with the power feed engaged and mic it to determine what sort of bed wear you have. Alternatively you can use a machinist's straight edge and feeler gauges for a quick check, but make sure the headstock end of your straight edge is resting on the unworn portion of the ways next to the head stock. Maybe it doesn't need to be said, but rest the straight edge on the angled faces of the bed ways, not the flat tops and clean them off first.
One good thing about a short bed is that it is easier and cheaper to get it planed and or reground. More capacity is usually better if you can afford the $ and space for a larger machine. If you're sure this one is enough for you, I'd prepare to tear it down and refurbish and refinish it. That means doing the research and assembling all the foreseeable necessities before you start so that your down-time is minimized. You can make that lathe look like a million bucks, greatly increase it's value and learn about it in ways you never would otherwise. For now I would remove and clean out the half nuts on the carriage; they're probably full of chips and filings which will destroy the bronze nuts in time. Clean the ways thoroughly and the undersides of the tailstock and carriage; replace the wiper felts. You can't fix the damage already done, but you can prevent more.
One good thing about a short bed is that it is easier and cheaper to get it planed and or reground. More capacity is usually better if you can afford the $ and space for a larger machine. If you're sure this one is enough for you, I'd prepare to tear it down and refurbish and refinish it. That means doing the research and assembling all the foreseeable necessities before you start so that your down-time is minimized. You can make that lathe look like a million bucks, greatly increase it's value and learn about it in ways you never would otherwise. For now I would remove and clean out the half nuts on the carriage; they're probably full of chips and filings which will destroy the bronze nuts in time. Clean the ways thoroughly and the undersides of the tailstock and carriage; replace the wiper felts. You can't fix the damage already done, but you can prevent more.
Don't bother. It's a work, and money sink, lots of both, no real return on either.
Use it, learn to make it work for you, if you need another, better lathe, buy that. The OP wants to work on guns, yeah, not have a hobby of tracking down parts for a 50 year old lathe?
Some guys like working on old machine tools. Sell the lathe to one of them, let them pound hundreds of hours into fixing it so it will sell for an extra couple hundred bucks.
FWIW, the only place in Edmonton that was set up to do way grinding, quoted me over $10K to grind a Myford Lathe Bed. Good deal. For them. I didn't.
While there are a few places in the States that will do a pretty decent job for pretty cheaply, you also have to take transport into account, plus fitting the reground bed with all the stuff that does not fit any more because the alignment is now out by 10 or 20 thou, usually installing Moglice or similar under the carriage and shims under the headstock/tailstock, so everything aligns.
Buying a clapped out POS lathe and then pounding a pile of time and money in to it that will never come back, is a life lesson in why you should have spent more cash up front to save a bunch in the long term.
Decide what you want, a hobby that USES the lathe, or a hobby that WORKS ON the lathe.
YMMV, but that is my opinion. I have looked at more than a few of those projects that guys were trying to sell or give away over the years. I left pretty much all of them where they were, too.
Cheers
Trev
Ok guy this is a project, that I did not intend to sink alot of money into ,not going to be working on ANYONES guns, just a play toy, to fill all of about 4 months a years. I like the idea of making it work a little better,and the ability to make somethings here and there, but not a big loss if I never recover any money back out of the old lathe. If I wanted to make a business out of it....I would have bought new, and I would have bought everything I wanted to go with it. What the difference??$50,000 car or $50,000 on a new lathe ....you can't make any money out of the car, unless your going to buy a classic or something like that ...me I'm in it for the fun of it,the challenge of making things, and that the reason I bought it. I remember uses an old SB in high school, and love using it.
Everyone needs a hobby....I guess I just have more than one.
Cheers
Brian
Everyone needs a hobby....I guess I just have more than one.
Cheers
Brian
