I have an Ithika 12 g, 2 3/4 inch pump shotgun that is at least 40 years old. I have only used it for upland game with lead shot for the past 20 years and am thinking of going for waterfowl again next fall. Is it safe to shoot the new non-toxic shot with this gun?
older shotgun safe?
- Thread starter deadhead
- Start date
no
The short answre is no, it is not really safe if it is choked.
You can saw the choke off and shoot steel 2 3/4" shells but then you are limited to the effective range of a cylinder bore, I have freinds who do this and limit their shots to close stuff over dekes and they do fine.
I had an older Stevens 820B with a poly-choke copy on it and used a few Kent Tungsten Matrix shells when they were still cheap at $27 for 10, they are now pushing $40 a box of 10!!! You can also look for Heavi-shot Classic Doubles but I think it is also VERY expensive. A seasons worth of Kent TM could buy a new Mossberg 500.
Personally I would not shoot any steel or any of the hard tungsten or heavi-shot from a older choked barrel, you will ruin the choke/barrel but may also split the barrel and create a dangerous situation. A friend split his 870 barrel (full choke) by shooting steel, luckily he didn't even notice it, it just spit the choked section, he cut it off and now shoots it as a cylinder for close up shots (steel typically patterns a bit tighter than lead/lead replacements).
The short answre is no, it is not really safe if it is choked.
You can saw the choke off and shoot steel 2 3/4" shells but then you are limited to the effective range of a cylinder bore, I have freinds who do this and limit their shots to close stuff over dekes and they do fine.
I had an older Stevens 820B with a poly-choke copy on it and used a few Kent Tungsten Matrix shells when they were still cheap at $27 for 10, they are now pushing $40 a box of 10!!! You can also look for Heavi-shot Classic Doubles but I think it is also VERY expensive. A seasons worth of Kent TM could buy a new Mossberg 500.
Personally I would not shoot any steel or any of the hard tungsten or heavi-shot from a older choked barrel, you will ruin the choke/barrel but may also split the barrel and create a dangerous situation. A friend split his 870 barrel (full choke) by shooting steel, luckily he didn't even notice it, it just spit the choked section, he cut it off and now shoots it as a cylinder for close up shots (steel typically patterns a bit tighter than lead/lead replacements).
I'll refer you to my post about this subject:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=307815
short answer, NO.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=307815
short answer, NO.
SHOTGUN BARREL ALTERATIONS FOR STEEL SHOT
Forcing Cone Alteration:
Factory shotgun barrels usually have a fairly short and abrupt forcing cone. The forcing cone is the tapered area just ahead of the chamber where the shell is contained. Altering the forcing cone, so it is one and one half or two inches in length, reduces recoil and improves the pattern density. Trap shooters and skeet shooters have been doing this for many years. It is a good benefit to the steel shot user as well.
Choke Alteration:
Choke designation from the tightest to the most open are:
Extra Full, Full, Improved Modified, Modified, Skeet II, Improved Cylinder, Skeet I, and Cylinder Bore.
Steel shot does not require the constriction that lead shot needs, to produce good patterns. In fact too much constriction, causes poor, erratic patterns, and in some cases, permanently damages the barrel. I have seen barrels bulged at the choke, I have seen barrels where the choke split right open, from using steel shot.
For steel shot, with thin barrels, chokes should be altered to at least Skeet II. Often, over & under, and side-by-side shotguns, are best altered to Skeet I and Skeet II chokes. Heavier barrels can be left at Modified choke but may see an improvement in the pattern if opened slightly.
I do this alteration (forcing cone and choke) only on barrels that are not chrome lined. It usually costs $80 per barrel.
Forcing Cone Alteration:
Factory shotgun barrels usually have a fairly short and abrupt forcing cone. The forcing cone is the tapered area just ahead of the chamber where the shell is contained. Altering the forcing cone, so it is one and one half or two inches in length, reduces recoil and improves the pattern density. Trap shooters and skeet shooters have been doing this for many years. It is a good benefit to the steel shot user as well.
Choke Alteration:
Choke designation from the tightest to the most open are:
Extra Full, Full, Improved Modified, Modified, Skeet II, Improved Cylinder, Skeet I, and Cylinder Bore.
Steel shot does not require the constriction that lead shot needs, to produce good patterns. In fact too much constriction, causes poor, erratic patterns, and in some cases, permanently damages the barrel. I have seen barrels bulged at the choke, I have seen barrels where the choke split right open, from using steel shot.
For steel shot, with thin barrels, chokes should be altered to at least Skeet II. Often, over & under, and side-by-side shotguns, are best altered to Skeet I and Skeet II chokes. Heavier barrels can be left at Modified choke but may see an improvement in the pattern if opened slightly.
I do this alteration (forcing cone and choke) only on barrels that are not chrome lined. It usually costs $80 per barrel.
You use the term "non-toxic". Are you referring to steel? If so, you have your answer.
Sawing off a barrel is a pretty drastic way of removing choke. I hqve used an expansion reamer, followed by polishing.
If not steel, you might want to mention the specific non-toxic shot.
Sawing off a barrel is a pretty drastic way of removing choke. I hqve used an expansion reamer, followed by polishing.
If not steel, you might want to mention the specific non-toxic shot.
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I have a 1957 Remington 870 and a 1964 Browning A5, both with the original full choked barrels opened up to modified ($40.00 job) and they shoot steel fine.
Browning doesn't recommend it with the older barrels, but my 'smith says he's done dozens of Brownings with no bring-backs.
Browning doesn't recommend it with the older barrels, but my 'smith says he's done dozens of Brownings with no bring-backs.
You can use Bismuth shot in the full choke barrel (it is expensive). I have opened up many Ithaca barrels to a light modified (actually Skeet II) and no one has had any problem with them. Suttills Gunsmithing in Meadow Lake can do the job for you.
notsorichguy
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I had the same problem to consider just about 10 years ago. I went to my local gunsmith and he set me up. He sold me on the idea of threding my barrel to accept choke tubes. The cost difference (at that time) was about $35, 75 to shorten my barrel by 3", and thread thead the interior of the barrel, $110 to "rechamber"(thats the wrong word) my chock to a modified that will shoot steel. Now I have 3 different choke tubes for the old girl @ about $45 ea. It's still a 2 3/4" so its pretty much useless for Geese, but it still works well on ducks and game birds.
I feel its a way to re-new an old gun but I wouldn't bother unless it has some sentimental value. In retrospect I should have saved my money and put it towads a new shotgun, at least a 3" if not a 3 1/2", Steel doesn't penetrate very well out of a 2 3/4" unless you are close up to the bird.
I feel its a way to re-new an old gun but I wouldn't bother unless it has some sentimental value. In retrospect I should have saved my money and put it towads a new shotgun, at least a 3" if not a 3 1/2", Steel doesn't penetrate very well out of a 2 3/4" unless you are close up to the bird.
M37
Deadhead,
Did you say your M37 was choked full? Ithaca technicians say no problem shooting steel shot through M37 pumps up to and including Modified. More choke just reduce constriction.
Steel is fairly cheap but the expensive bismuth and buffered stuff sure isn't. That said, the expensive non-toxic has better range and killing capacity than steel. If you pattern your gun and get used to steel shot you can adapt no problem.
Keep the Ithaca AND get a nice Beretta!
Deadhead,
Did you say your M37 was choked full? Ithaca technicians say no problem shooting steel shot through M37 pumps up to and including Modified. More choke just reduce constriction.
Steel is fairly cheap but the expensive bismuth and buffered stuff sure isn't. That said, the expensive non-toxic has better range and killing capacity than steel. If you pattern your gun and get used to steel shot you can adapt no problem.
Keep the Ithaca AND get a nice Beretta!
