once fired brass versus 10th fired brass

Gents - I've obviously stirred up a hornets nest. The point in question relates to the potential benefits of case segregation by firings. For an experienced reloader, as H4831 et al state, this is un-neccesary as their inspection regimen allows them to monitor case integrity, and their reloading regimen minimizes excessive case expansion and cumulative metal fatigue.
However, for a 20-and-some year old newbie reloader (and there are a lot of them thanks to the internet) case segregation by firings will, as a minimum, give them the opportunity to keep track of the number of firings. Setting a conservative limit to the number of firings is an appropriate method to mitigate the risk of case failure, as reloading manuals suggest.
I follow this approach. I segregate by firings and brand for convenience - using the 50 rd MTM cases. All cases go through firing and reloading cycles together, such that I can keep track of the number of sizings. I load several calibers, from 303 to 8 mm Mauser. I do my best to eliminate case expansion by partial resizing to my tightest chamber - I'm loading for several rifles in each caliber. In calibers like 303, case life is short - I limit to two resizings. For the other rimless cases, I go up to 4 resizings, unless inspection dictates otherwise.
I understand that I could get more use out of my brass. However, given the extra time spent managing my brass, and the reloading economies realized, its not worth the risk for me. Additionally, I hunt with my reloads, so I dont want to run the risk of a case failure in the field.
Each to his own... I dont care whether I prevail in this discussion. I would hope that by presenting varying points of view, those newbie reloaders will benefit in some way, and manage the risk of reloading in an informed manner.
 
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Can you start saving your twice fired 303 brass for me? I'll pay the shipping.;)

Seriously, what do you think the "experienced" handloader is going to pick up that you won't? On the outside of the case, you might see a bright ring above the web indicating thinning of your cases. Or you might use the bent paper clip to feel for the same on the inside. Either would be a good indicator as to when to trash the brass. It also sounds like you have loaded enough to be able to notice a loose primer pocket. Or a tiny crack in the case mouth. There are no magic super-powers to be gained with experience.;)

Just like to add, as far as rifle cases go, I've had exactly one case seperate in the last 18+ years. It was on the first reload on a once-fired factory 6.5x55 case. I got 8 reloads out of the other 19 before I pitched them. As you see, nothing in reloading is cast in stone.
 
Say I had some rifle brass that was fired a whole bunch of times, and I had brass that was only fired once... should I keep them seperate? Would there be an effect on accuracy if they were all mixed?

I don't separate my brass with the exception of my match brass. When the primer pockets open up or when I find a crack, I cull the case. I full length resize the cases for my hunting rifles to minimum dimensions because my handloads must be able to cycle through more than one rifle. I would full length resize my hunting ammo anyway as my philosophy is that functioning trumps accuracy.

Full length resizing to minimum dimensions over several cycles work hardens the brass and creates inconsistent neck tension, which has a detrimental effect on accuracy. The solution is to anneal the shoulder and neck area of the cartridge cases. Done properly, the brass softens uniformly, neck tension becomes more consistent, and accuracy, theoretically, improves. Can the difference in accuracy be detected in the typical hunting rifle? I rather doubt it, and if you can manage 1-1.5 MOA with your hunting rifle when shooting at normal hunting ranges, you will have difficulty shooting up to your rifle under field conditions.
 
Tell me you guys at least organize by manufacturer?? :eek::eek:

What ever system you come up with, so long as your thorough you'll do just find. ;)

What's the point of sorting by manufacturer?
The cases are sized the same size on the outside, they are made of the same kind of material, so if they weigh close to the same, the inside capacity, the powder capacity, will be the same. What difference does it make who made the case.
I sort by weight.
 
Tell me you guys at least organize by manufacturer?? :eek::eek:

I only segregate brass for my hunting rifles that is known to be of significantly smaller volume, like military brass (I still have some Lake City and Frankfort Arsenal .30/06 match brass) or the new Nosler brass. I don't even segregate by caliber; if I'm short of brass, I'll run .270 brass through the '06 die, trim them and I'm good to go. Of the 50 .30/06 cases I prepped this morning, I have Federal, Winchester, Remington, Gevelot, Imperial, and yes a Winchester .270 Winchester case. Once loaded, this stuff will shoot between MOA and 1.5 MOA, and there will be no signs of excess pressure. On the other hand, the flash-holes have been deburred and uniformed, and the primer pockets have been uniformed, the cases have been annealed, and all bullets will be crimped in place to uniform the bullet pull.
 
What's the point of sorting by manufacturer?
The cases are sized the same size on the outside, they are made of the same kind of material, so if they weigh close to the same, the inside capacity, the powder capacity, will be the same. What difference does it make who made the case.
I sort by weight.


I wouldn't bet on the same hardness. My Nosler and Remington .300 Ultra brass that I use for my .338 Edge weigh the same, but if I loaded the Nosler to the same charge the primer pockets would gone on the first firing. As near as I can tell the interior capacity is the same too.
 
H4831, please explain how this is done?

However, I check every case for a possible swollen pocket. This is one of the most important checks in reloading, and is done by judicious care in seating the primer.

H4831, please explain how this is done?
 
However, I check every case for a possible swollen pocket. This is one of the most important checks in reloading, and is done by judicious care in seating the primer.

H4831, please explain how this is done?

If you're using a hand-primer tool, its very easy to tell if the pocket is loose. The primer will slide in with very little resistance. I don't use my press to prime brass, so I don't have an opinion on that way...
 
I don't separate by manufacturer. I've heard of differences in pressure and velocity varying from different manufacturers, but my chrony has been telling me otherwise.

I basically have an active batch of brass, usually 50, and use them until I start seeing signs of being done for in several cases and then I pitch the batch. For me, it has always been loose primer pockets, as max loads are my norm. I usually FL resize, as I often shoot a number of rifles in the same caliber, bolts and semi's, and my ammo needs to work in all my rifles.

I also hunt with ammo on it's last reload, as recovering brass on a hunt is not as easy as at the range, so if it goes into a river or deep snow, I don't really care as it's trash anyways.
 
However, I check every case for a possible swollen pocket. This is one of the most important checks in reloading, and is done by judicious care in seating the primer.

H4831, please explain how this is done?

If you aren't sure about a case, deprime it and attempt to push the primer home with thumb pressure. If it seats under thumb pressure the pocket has expanded and the case is finished and should be discarded.
 
Tell me you guys at least organize by manufacturer?? :eek::eek:

I was thinking the same thing.

I seperate my brass by lot and weight sort within that lot. I will then take one random brass out of each lot and load it ahead of the rest, as a "test brass". When the "test brass" finally splits its neck or shows other signs of fatigue, I'll make a note of "# of firings" and toss the rest of the lot, at or before that number.

I never hunt old brass. Enough stuff can go wrong on a hunt, without having brass fail.
 
When I stated I carefully inspect every case, to see if the primer pocket hasn't swelled, several have asked me how and it occurs to me that maybe I didn't explain it well enough.
I prime on a heavy, but very smooth action press. By carefully observing how much pressure is required to seat the primer, I am instantly aware, if the pressure is not correct. If I think it went in too easy, I will likely push it back out, and with extra care, seat it again. If it takes less power on the handle than it should, the case is scrapped. Just be constantly aware of the pressure of seating the primer, and it is a fast, but reliable way to make sure the primer is not loose.
I have always felt that the thumb method, while often recommended, may allow for the primer to be a little too loose.
I have very few cases that wear out that way, anyway. The majority wear out by necks cracking, which is in no way dangerous.
 
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