One rifle, one calibre, one cartride.

I do not agree... MPBR is not to utilize a single aim point... it is to minimize deviation over your expected range span... for example if my MPBR for my .260 (just throwing out numbers here to make my point, they won't be accurate) with a 129 grain load is 340 yards with a 4" radius, requiring a zero of 280 yards... and resulting in a mid point trajectory of +4" at 150 yards... knowing this, why then would I not hold 4" low when a buck is standing at 150 yards??? Ergo Kentucky windage.... OR if I know my POI at 375 yards is -4" why then would I not hold 4" high on a pronghorn ranged at 375 yards??? Ergo, Kentucky windage... but by utilizing MPBR for my particular set-up I have minimized deviation and the amount I am required to hold over or under... by knowing your trajectory, you can be much more accurate in the field and at the range... IMO it would be irresponsible to zero for MPBR with the standard kill zone of 10" (I only use 6")... and then knowing your target is either at mid range OR maximum MPBR and NOT either holding over or under... in not taking the POI at that particular range into consideration you risking "human error" or "Murphy's Law" to edge the bullet slightly in the wrong direction, resulting in an undesirable hit. JMO.

You can do whatever you like once the calculation is made but the fact still remains that MPBR refers to a single point of aim basically in the middle of the vitals. The size of kill zone is optional in the calculation. You can calculate for whatever size you desire. I rarely use single crosshair scopes any more so it's kind of an irrelevant calculation for me but for those that do, it is important,. Personally I'd use an 8" zone but no harm using 6"...the calculator will spit out results for both....sans Kentucky windage.
 
Wow, well that is some serious fire power, not many guys can "honestly" shoot rifles so big and actually hit their target. I've seen it many times over the years.

And My mistake, i missed his location.

Why do you think that only a few can shoot and hit with big rifles? There's no mystery to it, and anyone in good physical condition, who is well grounded in practical field marksmanship, and who has the desire to master these rifles, can do so. Provided the rifle is not unusually light for the cartridge, provided the stock fits the shooter, and provided its equipped with a good quality recoil pad, these rifles are designed to be used by normal people.

There are a few considerations which should be observed when shooting a hard kicker though. When you've had enough, its time to take a break; if you allow the rifle to hurt you, it will be difficult to overcome the effects that will manifest themselves as flinching. If the front swivel bites your hand, move it. If your knuckle is rapped by the rear bow of the trigger guard, install a knuckle deflector. If the scope is mounted too far rearward to avoid being hit, do whatever you need to do to move it ahead, even if it means you cannot use all of the scope's magnification. If the scope cannot be moved far enough ahead to avoid being hit, remove it and shoot with iron sights only, or purchase mounts which will allow you to move the scope forward. If you find that factory loads are too much of a good thing, handload light loads, and over time work up to the full potential of the cartridge. Begin shooting offhand until you build up confidence in your ability to handle the rifle. Once you've mastered offhand shooting, try a supported position like kneeling or sitting that will allow you to move with the recoil of the rifle. Once you've mastered those, try shooting from those positions slung up, if slinging up is your habit. Once these have been mastered, try shooting prone if you are comfortable with the idea of trying it, but keep the shot string to 3 rounds or less at the start. By now you've fired a few hundred full powered loads, and you can say that you can shoot a big rifle and hit with it.
 
You can do whatever you like once the calculation is made but the fact still remains that MPBR refers to a single point of aim basically in the middle of the vitals. The size of kill zone is optional in the calculation. You can calculate for whatever size you desire. I rarely use single crosshair scopes any more so it's kind of an irrelevant calculation for me but for those that do, it is important,. Personally I'd use an 8" zone but no harm using 6"...the calculator will spit out results for both....sans Kentucky windage.

You clearly are having a hard time grasping the concept... linear thinker...
 
Ah, I thought the .30/06 180 was named the minimum in the legislation, but if we're simply talking about muzzle velocity and energy, I can get 210s up to 2650 fps in my .308 target rifle for about 3276 foot pounds, not that I think foot pounds of energy alone equate to good terminal performance on game, and that target rifle doesn't have a 20" barrel.

Mike this is what we have in the regulation

Minimum Firearm Requirements for Hunting Wood Bison
X
X
A centre fire rifle, .30 calibre or larger, with minimum 180 grain bullets (premium
bullets strongly recommended) and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
(A .30-06 calibre is the baseline rifle.)

the french translation is not meaning the same lol .... but Ted was able to make a 308 legal for Marg on her bison hunting.
 
Mike this is what we have in the regulation

Minimum Firearm Requirements for Hunting Wood Bison
X
X
A centre fire rifle, .30 calibre or larger, with minimum 180 grain bullets (premium
bullets strongly recommended) and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
(A .30-06 calibre is the baseline rifle.)

the french translation is not meaning the same lol .... but Ted was able to make a 308 legal for Marg on her bison hunting.

Ah, he was just showin off. She's tough enough to handle one of his 9.3X62s or for that matter a .458. Teds as tough as he is from packing out all of Marg's meat and trophies year after year.;)
 
Why do you think that only a few can shoot and hit with big rifles? There's no mystery to it, and anyone in good physical condition, who is well grounded in practical field marksmanship, and who has the desire to master these rifles, can do so. Provided the rifle is not unusually light for the cartridge, provided the stock fits the shooter, and provided its equipped with a good quality recoil pad, these rifles are designed to be used by normal people.

There are a few considerations which should be observed when shooting a hard kicker though. When you've had enough, its time to take a break; if you allow the rifle to hurt you, it will be difficult to overcome the effects that will manifest themselves as flinching. If the front swivel bites your hand, move it. If your knuckle is rapped by the rear bow of the trigger guard, install a knuckle deflector. If the scope is mounted too far rearward to avoid being hit, do whatever you need to do to move it ahead, even if it means you cannot use all of the scope's magnification. If the scope cannot be moved far enough ahead to avoid being hit, remove it and shoot with iron sights only, or purchase mounts which will allow you to move the scope forward. If you find that factory loads are too much of a good thing, handload light loads, and over time work up to the full potential of the cartridge. Begin shooting offhand until you build up confidence in your ability to handle the rifle. Once you've mastered offhand shooting, try a supported position like kneeling or sitting that will allow you to move with the recoil of the rifle. Once you've mastered those, try shooting from those positions slung up, if slinging up is your habit. Once these have been mastered, try shooting prone if you are comfortable with the idea of trying it, but keep the shot string to 3 rounds or less at the start. By now you've fired a few hundred full powered loads, and you can say that you can shoot a big rifle and hit with it.

All good advice, but "big rifle" is a subjective term. To me, it probably means .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery or something with more energy than that. .375H&H is not what I would call a "big rifle" calibre, but some would consider it so. In my mind, .375 H&H is not really much different than .338 Win Mag.

I would consider .45-70 to be easier to shoot than all the calibers I just mentioned above, despite making a bigger hole.

I've routinely shot .450-577 and .577 Snider and consider those even lighter than .45-70. Same for .450 nitro express.

It's all a matter of the individual shooter's perspective :)
 
All good advice, but "big rifle" is a subjective term. To me, it probably means .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery or something with more energy than that. .375H&H is not what I would call a "big rifle" calibre, but some would consider it so. In my mind, .375 H&H is not really much different than .338 Win Mag.

I would consider .45-70 to be easier to shoot than all the calibers I just mentioned above, despite making a bigger hole.

I've routinely shot .450-577 and .577 Snider and consider those even lighter than .45-70. Same for .450 nitro express.

It's all a matter of the individual shooter's perspective :)

I agree, I had a fellow one time tell me that he had a .270, but that he didn't enjoy shooting big rifles. What can you say to that? There are folks who shoot a .375 H&H with little apparent trepidation, but are filled with anxiety over the prospect of shouldering a .378 Weatherby. But for the sake of clarity, lets define a big rifle for the purposes of this discussion as one which generates in excess of 40 ft-lbs of recoil. That should keep us honest.
 
All good advice, but "big rifle" is a subjective term. To me, it probably means .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery or something with more energy than that. .375H&H is not what I would call a "big rifle" calibre, but some would consider it so. In my mind, .375 H&H is not really much different than .338 Win Mag.

A game I've played is quizzing up PHs on whether they thought a .375 was the biggest of the small guns, or the smallest of the big guns. Inevitably, they will come up with a "Damn, since you put it that way its the smallest of the big guns". As much as I like the .375, I've moved to the .45s for big and the .375 for do-everything.

If you were allowed to, and were paying for it yourself, would you cheerfully hunt elephant with a .338?
 
The calculation of the theory is linear... the BEST field application of the theory is somewhat "curvier..."

No doubt you can apply the calculation in a number of ways but getting back to my original point, there is no Kentucky windage included in the calculation or the intended application like you accidentally indicated but no doubt that MPBR number allows you a lot of options once calculated. How's that for linear curves ;)
 
A game I've played is quizzing up PHs on whether they thought a .375 was the biggest of the small guns, or the smallest of the big guns. Inevitably, they will come up with a "Damn, since you put it that way its the smallest of the big guns". As much as I like the .375, I've moved to the .45s for big and the .375 for do-everything.

If you were allowed to, and were paying for it yourself, would you cheerfully hunt elephant with a .338?

How come you didn't settle on something in between - i.e. .416" of one sort or another?
 
A game I've played is quizzing up PHs on whether they thought a .375 was the biggest of the small guns, or the smallest of the big guns. Inevitably, they will come up with a "Damn, since you put it that way its the smallest of the big guns". As much as I like the .375, I've moved to the .45s for big and the .375 for do-everything.

If you were allowed to, and were paying for it yourself, would you cheerfully hunt elephant with a .338?

I've been often told it's the biggest of the medium guns...lol It does seem to have trouble finding a slot in many people's definitions of big bores vs well, that's another ball of wax.
 
No doubt you can apply the calculation in a number of ways but getting back to my original point, there is no Kentucky windage included in the calculation or the intended application like you accidentally indicated but no doubt that MPBR number allows you a lot of options once calculated. How's that for linear curves ;)

We are still not on the same page... I am well aware the Maximum Point Blank Range, intends to calculate the maximum distance at which one can aim dead-on and still have the POI fall within a specified kill zone... my point is that in the field, unless you have chosen a KZ of 4 or 5"... you would be wise to use KW on a target, when you know your trajectory and your range to target... this is the best use of the "MPBR" calculation... as I said earlier I feel using a 10" KZ and not using KW when your target is at the Mid-Range trajectory or at the Maximum MPBR is foolish and irresponsible...

All of the above is my "opinion" only...

Having said this... I have calculated a number of guns for a 4" KZ and hold dead on... mostly short range rimfire rifles and .44 RM and .45/70... in these cases at short ranges, hold over and under becomes unnecessary as there is plenty of margin built in.
 
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