Only $180,000 USD

Oh yes, Holland and Hollands are expensive.

Yes, the quality of materials is a variable, and the marketing name, after all who on this board has a Holland & Holland double gun? But its the craftsmanship that really costs the big money. Anyone here know how long it takes to set double barrells so they both hit inside half an inch at 75 yards, resoldering them each time? How about all of that just perfect engraving.

Lets face it, unless I win 10 million+ (cause I probably couldn't afford one with just 1 million), I'll never be able to afford one. Maybe one regular member of this form could. But oh god, they are beautiful...

O'Kelly's Boys
 
stewarch said:
The last time I checked, this was still a free country; and, I guess you can pay whatever you want for a gun. But these guys whining that there is no difference havn't got a clue! You're probably the same guys that think a rice rocket is just the same as a Mercedes.

All I can say is, try a good shotgun - you will find it a somewhat different experience from your Crappy Tire 12 ga. :p
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Yeah... The way I look at it is that if you really need a big expensive gun to shoot accuratly then you cant be that good a shooter. I can pick up most shotguns and do decent with them, but the two I use the best are the ones I have used the longest and feel comfortable with. I can shoot 20-24 on trap most of the time with either one. One is a cheap, zombie shotgun, and the other is a higher grade Browning Centarui. I can see that having a $200,000 gun would shoot better than a $250 870 by a great deal, but even so, would it be that much greater than a $1500-3000 shotgun? What I am trying to say here is that I know the gun will shoot very nicely and feel very refined but you can get the same results for much much less.

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Yeah... The way I look at it is that if you really need a big expensive gun to shoot accuratly then you cant be that good a shooter. I can pick up most shotguns and do decent with them,
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Actually, if you have an H&H Royal Deluxe, and it is not made to fit you, you will have a devil of a time trying to shoot it. Like most thoroughbreds, she does not work well without expert handling.

No gun will make you a better shooter. You cannot buy skill, you must earn it. A skilled craftsman prefers better tools. The H&H is as good a tool as can be made, for its intended purpose.

Pure Energy, I notice you keep your Citori in a nicely crafted, fitted case with good quality brass hardware. The case does not make your gun any better, and a cheap plastic case would protect it just as well. The case could have been made with lesser wood and cheaper furniture, and had the same result. Or is it the same result? Craftsmanship, design and materials count for something after all.

Sharptail
 
Uh...why? Guaranteed my 870 functions just as well or better than that, and I paid $150 for it. It's not like it's going to be more accurate, and I don't care how damn nice the metal and woodwork is for it, there's no way in hell I'd pay a TENTH of that for ANY firearm.

-Rohann
 
If anyone is interested in a pic, I have a catalogue article in front of me from Frankonia (distributor in Germany).

FIVE SxS Holland & Holland shotguns, known as the "Quintet" Price for the five guns, as a set, is a meager 560,000 Euros, not dollars.

This catalogue has everything from cheap ol' Rugers to those beautiful H&H shotguns, to engraved Blaserand Merkel drillings to a 72,000 Euro engraved Streitmeier SxS .500 N.E.

Now, where did I leave that $10 M I had lying around...
 
Sharptail said:
Pure Energy, I notice you keep your Citori in a nicely crafted, fitted case with good quality brass hardware. The case does not make your gun any better, and a cheap plastic case would protect it just as well. The case could have been made with lesser wood and cheaper furniture, and had the same result. Or is it the same result? Craftsmanship, design and materials count for something after all.

Sharptail
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The cheap plastic case would probably do, but when I bought the gun from an older gent who stopped shooting he threw in the case as he didn't need it anymore, saved me buying another case.

Looks and price dont matter (that much) some shoot better than others, but you still do not need a $100K+ gun to shoot 25/25 everytime in a round of trap, or get your limit on ducks for the night.
 
gorky said:
If anyone is interested in a pic, I have a catalogue article in front of me from Frankonia (distributor in Germany).

FIVE SxS Holland & Holland shotguns, known as the "Quintet" Price for the five guns, as a set, is a meager 560,000 Euros, not dollars.

This catalogue has everything from cheap ol' Rugers to those beautiful H&H shotguns, to engraved Blaserand Merkel drillings to a 72,000 Euro engraved Streitmeier SxS .500 N.E. ..
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and i bet the pic in ths catalogue is the actually gun you'd get if ordered LOL
 
Amphibious said:
YES! first thing I thought! Sad :(
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Why sad?

I have a "William Evans" Classic grade (not Royal or Prestige) in .375H&H and it has a wonderful Ziess 1.25-4 x 30 on it that has a wonderful quick detachable feature.

This is an extremely quick set up for dangerous game.
 
The disdain shown by some people about Holland and Holland only parades their own lack of understanding about what goes into these guns.

Any gun whether it's an H&H or an 870 is comprised of two basic elements. The value of the basic materials and the cost in time of the people who put it together.

The quality of the steel used and the wood makes it cost more. The wood blank alone for a fine H&H double could easily cost more than a dozen 870 Express.

Then there is the time to make it which is where the real money lies. Holland and Holland guns are made by hand by a select group of craftsmen who are among the very best in the world and are valued accordingly. They will spend well over a thousand hours making the gun. A sidelock double requires a mechanism with many parts that must fit together seamlessly. The stock isn't just a slab of birch with pressed checkering screwed onto a machine-cut receiver.

In the late 90's I visited the Holland and Holland shooting grounds in the UK. Because I had a connection I shot H&H guns including a spectacular 28 gauge Royal o/u. The list price was £60,000 or about $140,000CDN. Well beyond my means but an amazing gun nonethless and in examining the gun I understood why they cost what they do.
 
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Pure Energy said:
Yeah... The way I look at it is that if you really need a big expensive gun to shoot accuratly then you cant be that good a shooter.

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I doubt it has anything to do with wanting to shoot more accurately, some people just wouldn;t be caught dead with ugly tupperware clad mall ninja hardware ;)
 
It takes roughly 2000 hours to build a double by hand. It doesn't take long for the costs to add up. These guns are built by the best with the best.
I was in H&H's Paris gun room last year and there were several $200 000+ CDN guns for sale and it didn't look like they were having any problems selling them.
 
Amphibious said:
I doubt it has anything to do with wanting to shoot more accurately, some people just wouldn;t be caught dead with ugly tupperware clad mall ninja hardware ;)
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Lol, yeah, but what I am trying to get across is this: I can shoot either of my guns as accuratly as a $150K+ gun. If I was standing next to a guy with an HH shooting skeet or trap all day with my Browning and getting 24-25 each round I would find it hard not to laugh at the guy.

"Oh you got 25/25" "Yeah, so did you eh?" "Yeah, but I only spent $700 on my gun, sorta sucks that you had to spend over $150,000 just to get 25/25 huh?"
 
You can drink Baby duck or Dom Perignon... If you had the money wich would you choose. ;)

P.S. It's all relative to your pay check. A Citori or a Silver pigeon may seem extravagant to a guy who works for minimum wage...
 
Pure energy, does that mean that if I go to your club and use my $50 CIL single shot to shoot 25/25, that you will get all depressed for spending way too much money on your fancy $700 gun?

"Oh you got 25/25" "Yeah, so did you eh?" "Yeah, but I only spent $50 on my gun, sorta sucks that you had to spend over $700 just to get 25/25 huh?"

You just don't seem to get that you cannot buy skill. You imply that if the hypothetical fellow shooting the $150,000 gun was using yours instead, he would achieve a lesser score. This is patently untrue. The skill of the shooter and the quality of the tool are two distinct entities. If you choose to spend $70, or $700, or $7,000 or more on a gun is your choice, based on your priorities and your taste. What other people choose to spend on a gun is their decision - but it has little to do with buying a higher score.

Sharptail
 
Pure Energy said:
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Lol, yeah, but what I am trying to get across is this: I can shoot either of my guns as accuratly as a $150K+ gun. If I was standing next to a guy with an HH shooting skeet or trap all day with my Browning and getting 24-25 each round I would find it hard not to laugh at the guy.

"Oh you got 25/25" "Yeah, so did you eh?" "Yeah, but I only spent $700 on my gun, sorta sucks that you had to spend over $150,000 just to get 25/25 huh?"
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Some how I dont think people owning 150k shotguns are doing it to improve accuracy or to be competative with the mall ninjas who usualy laugh at them for spending so much money on a shotgun, Its a pice of art that the best of the best spent thousands of hours to construct. Typicaly I find people who are extreamly jealous of other peoples firearms (but wont admit it) when they generate more attention than theirs resort to the my 700$ gun shoots just as good as your bazillion dollar gun so there looooser.
 
Sharptail said:
Pure energy, does that mean that if I go to your club and use my $50 CIL single shot to shoot 25/25, that you will get all depressed for spending way too much money on your fancy $700 gun?

"Oh you got 25/25" "Yeah, so did you eh?" "Yeah, but I only spent $50 on my gun, sorta sucks that you had to spend over $700 just to get 25/25 huh?"

You just don't seem to get that you cannot buy skill. You imply that if the hypothetical fellow shooting the $150,000 gun was using yours instead, he would achieve a lesser score. This is patently untrue. The skill of the shooter and the quality of the tool are two distinct entities.
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Mmm hmmm, well here is a bit from one of my previous posts in this thread, maybe you should have read it.

"Looks and price dont matter (that much) some shoot better than others, but you still do not need a $100K+ gun to shoot 25/25 everytime in a round of trap, or get your limit on ducks for the night."


As for the gun, I can tell you that I sure as hell woulden't want to shoot a break single shot all day long. 100-200 shells later and your shoulder would hurt like a #####, not only that but they aren't that good for skeet. You are the one who does not seem to understand much here.
 
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