Only $180,000 USD

We're talking about what beautiful and good handling guns they are. Have you ever held one? Try it some time. Wood to metal fit is almost scary and they point like they had eyes of their own.

It's not about what it cost, it's about what you want. If you want to save up and spend big money on a Holland, Purdey or Boss, go for it. You want a BMW? Go right ahead. Who am I to say that someone shouldn't spend the money on things they like?

To say you'd laugh at someone you beat in competition just makes you look like an anus.
 
I've handled a couple of HH shotguns and double rifles, as well as Perdy's (sp) and a Drilling or two. A few topped $250,000 CDN although most were under $100,000 CDN. Not by cup of tea, but still nice guns. The HH double rifle shot quite nice, and was accurate enough, but nothing super special to me. The owners all loved them though, and if you like wood stocks, they use nice wood. I prefer synthetic stocks myself.
 
Pure Energy said:
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Lol, yeah, but what I am trying to get across is this: I can shoot either of my guns as accuratly as a $150K+ gun. If I was standing next to a guy with an HH shooting skeet or trap all day with my Browning and getting 24-25 each round I would find it hard not to laugh at the guy.

"Oh you got 25/25" "Yeah, so did you eh?" "Yeah, but I only spent $700 on my gun, sorta sucks that you had to spend over $150,000 just to get 25/25 huh?"
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There are many forms of poverty. There is the financial poverty enjoyed by most of us that makes a Holland and Holland or similar gun well out of reach.

Then there is the poverty of intellect that prevents one from appreciating quality and craftsmanship or understanding what makes something valuable.

Then there is the emotional poverty that somehow finds enjoyment or satisfaction in out performing someone with a more expensive gun.

You may never overcome financial poverty to a degree that puts a Holland in your safe but you can without much cost overcome the other forms of poverty if you so desire.
 
Pure Energy said:
Mmm hmmm, well here is a bit from one of my previous posts in this thread, maybe you should have read it.

"Looks and price dont matter (that much) some shoot better than others, but you still do not need a $100K+ gun to shoot 25/25 everytime in a round of trap, or get your limit on ducks for the night."


As for the gun, I can tell you that I sure as hell woulden't want to shoot a break single shot all day long. 100-200 shells later and your shoulder would hurt like a #####, not only that but they aren't that good for skeet. You are the one who does not seem to understand much here.
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Pure Energy, you are right - I don't understand much of your posts here. You state that you do not need a $100K gun to shoot well. I agree. Then you state that you would laugh at anyone who has to spend that kind of money on a gun to shoot a good score. I don't get it - it does not follow your "looks and price don't matter" argument. When the logic is reversed and the scale of dollars is applied to your gun, your answer is that my gun will hurt me and I can't shoot a sport involving doubles. You are, in effect, defending your choice (and cost) of gun. Well, my gun does not hurt me, and I have had many 200 round days with it. As for skeet, I could get a used IZH or IGA for much less than the Browning, and so long as I shoot it well, I can still use your logic and laugh at you because you spent so much on the Browning. I don't think you would change your mind and regret buying your Browning, though. The illogical argument does not change with the quantity of dollars spent.

I don't mind that you don't want to or can't spend the kind of money that a "best" gun requires. Very few people can. What I do mind is the implication that those who do are somehow stupid, and worthy of being laughed at. That attitude displays ignorance (in the dictionary sense of the term). You would do better to put aside your prejudices, and learn just why it is that people value these items so highly. This is a gun nut's site after all, what is wrong with appreciating a fine gun?

Sharptail
 
Sharptail said:
Pure Energy, you are right - I don't understand much of your posts here. You state that you do not need a $100K gun to shoot well. I agree. Then you state that you would laugh at anyone who has to spend that kind of money on a gun to shoot a good score. I don't get it - it does not follow your "looks and price don't matter" argument.
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Fine, hows this to clear things up then? This is from my first post in this thread. I know that the gun will not make anyone much of a better shooter.
Pure Energy said:
This is utter insanity, who the hell would pay that for a gun? Unless your Bill Gates. You could buy one and have work done to it to make it look like them, and guarnteed it would not cost over 200K. Not only that, but I believe that the gun makes a slight difference in shooting, but for a shotgun, who the hell cares? Buying one wont make you a better shooter. IMO.
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Sharptail said:
When the logic is reversed and the scale of dollars is applied to your gun, your answer is that my gun will hurt me and I can't shoot a sport involving doubles. You are, in effect, defending your choice (and cost) of gun. Well, my gun does not hurt me, and I have had many 200 round days with it.
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Thats great, but please do not assume that for me. I am 20 years old and I only weigh 160 LBS and I can tell you that if I shot a 200 round day at our range with a single break action I would be hurting.

Sharptail said:
As for skeet, I could get a used IZH or IGA for much less than the Browning, and so long as I shoot it well, I can still use your logic and laugh at you because you spent so much on the Browning. I don't think you would change your mind and regret buying your Browning, though. The illogical argument does not change with the quantity of dollars spent.
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I am sure you could go out and buy one, then again, I do use my 870 for trap and skeet more often that I do my Browning. Hell, last year I got the gold medal at the amateur shoot at our club with my 870. You could laugh at me for my $700 Centauri, do you honestly think I would care? No, I would pull out my $250 Wingmaster and do just as well. Not only that but if your a goddamn millionaire, do you think some 20 year old who laughed at you for a second is really gonna care what the hell I think with my cheap Browning, or Remington.

Sharptail said:
I don't mind that you don't want to or can't spend the kind of money that a "best" gun requires. Very few people can. What I do mind is the implication that those who do are somehow stupid, and worthy of being laughed at. That attitude displays ignorance (in the dictionary sense of the term). You would do better to put aside your prejudices, and learn just why it is that people value these items so highly. This is a gun nut's site after all, what is wrong with appreciating a fine gun?

Sharptail.
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The "best" gun is in the eye of the beholder, and your right, I will probably never own one. With that statement you seem to think that to have the "best" gun you have to spend insane amounts of money on it? Well thats downright wrong. If you can shoot it and do well with it and it functions properly is that not the best gun for you? I come from a small town where I find it innane to spend that amount of money on a firearm. Could you not buy a cheaper one that gets the job done just as well, and then buy a few more different guns, or buy a gun and a ####load of ammo for it?
 
Pure Energy, I am glad we agree that the gun does not make you a shooter. We also agree that good shooting can be demonstrated with some pretty basic guns. We seem not to agree on the inherent value of a hand crafted gun.

I should have been more explicit with my use of terminology - a "best" gun is the best that a manufacturer can make, using the finest materials and craftsmanship they can muster. Such a gun may or may not carry adornment such as engraving or gold inlay, but all are built to the highest standards of fit, finish and function. It is this dedication to perfection that imbues a "best" gun with its inherent worth.

You do get something for all that hand built trouble. A best gun will have perfectly regulated barrels and rib. It will have hand cut chokes, opened to perfection on a patterning board. The triggers will be the definition of proper weight and crispness. Most importantly, the gun will possess a balance and pointability that makes it feel willing and cooperative. This is not altogether a subjective concept - the handling of a gun can be measured on a moment of inertia table, and much study has gone into determining the proper distribution of mass on a gun. It takes a lot of planning and work to build a gun with sublime handling qualities.

Whether the price of a gun is "inane" or not only you can decide. Ferrari's and Patek Philippe watches are also highly priced, but the market seems to find value in them. It is best to be familiar with the qualities of an object before dismissing it. Objects such as a best gun should inspire dreams, not invoke laughter or disdain. You or I may never own one, but we can appreciate its worth.

You have an opportunity on this board to learn about these rare masterpieces. There are many knowledgeable persons who frequent here who like to discuss this "artwork". Enjoy the view.

Sharptail
 
Sharptail said:
You do get something for all that hand built trouble. A best gun will have perfectly regulated barrels and rib. It will have hand cut chokes, opened to perfection on a patterning board. The triggers will be the definition of proper weight and crispness. Most importantly, the gun will possess a balance and pointability that makes it feel willing and cooperative. This is not altogether a subjective concept - the handling of a gun can be measured on a moment of inertia table, and much study has gone into determining the proper distribution of mass on a gun. It takes a lot of planning and work to build a gun with sublime handling qualities.

Whether the price of a gun is "inane" or not only you can decide. Ferrari's and Patek Philippe watches are also highly priced, but the market seems to find value in them. It is best to be familiar with the qualities of an object before dismissing it. Objects such as a best gun should inspire dreams, not invoke laughter or disdain. You or I may never own one, but we can appreciate its worth.

You have an opportunity on this board to learn about these rare masterpieces. There are many knowledgeable persons who frequent here who like to discuss this "artwork". Enjoy the view.

Sharptail
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Those who've had the experience understand exactly what you are saying. Sadly for the rest it's casting pearls before swines.

I'm debating who is more reprehensible. The snot nose who in his profound ignorance holds great disdain for fine guns because he can't afford or justify them. Or is it the 50 year old man who can afford them but doesn't truly appreciate what he has?

At least with the 20 year old there is hope he may learn. ;)
 
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if I had some extra cash, I would buy one H&H for me and one for my best buddy and we could get sore shoulders every day while we shot are single's while sipping fine brandy and laughing at all the peasants that could only afford browning's...(no offence to browning owners)
 
Profound ignorance is not reprehensible unless it is deliberate. Speculators who know nothing of these guns, but buy them and store them away sight unseen get my goat. Go buy paintings, leave the guns to the shooters.

There are so few actual "best" guns in existence that most of us will never get to see one, outside of photos. Holland & Holland make as many as anyone, and if they make 50 in a year then it is a good year. I lack the skills to fully describe the nuances you feel in a best gun, but sometimes I feel the need to try. You make progress when you compare yourself to the best, not the worst.

Sharptail
 
:D :D :D ......wondering how many more pages to a conclusion!

Pure Energy,

I do admire your persistence in the debate. However, all that the other gentlemen are trying to get across is the fact there is absolutely nothing wrong as well in being able to sincerely appreciate the finer "material" aspects that we come across in this world.....in this case the topic being fine guns.
 
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