Ont.Deer tag

blasted_saber said:
Services have actually gone up.....you can now buy your tag online.

Im curious what other service you want with your deer tag? An employee to guide you out to the bush?
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blasted_saber said:
All of this was done to save money. MNR is on a shoe string budget.
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The fact that I can buy tags online does not constitute services going up.... they have taken your money and are paying a US based company to issue your tags under the new tag system, which sucks by the way, having to carry all of those papers etc.....

Your second comment just makes my point.... I wouldn't be upset if the money went to boost up the MNR so they weren't on a "shoe string budget"... Instead of going stateside.... there was nothing wrong with the old tag system... Not exactly as if it was / is difficult to walk into a local hunting store who issues licenses and purchase.... in fact I still do and I pick up a few items while I am there to support these vendors and local economy....
 
canthitathing said:
I believe license fees go to general coffers which really irks me, otherwise I may not complain about these costs.
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No, just no ...

In recognition of the importance of fish and wildlife, the Ontario government made a commitment in 1995 that fish and wildlife licence revenues would be dedicated to management of these resources. By law, all revenue received under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act is put into a Special Purpose Account. At the same time, the public was provided with a greater role in deciding how the fish and wildlife resources of the province would be managed.

The money held in this account can only be spent on:

The management, perpetuation, or rehabilitation of wildlife or fish populations or the ecosystems of which these populations are a part
Matters related to the activities of people as they interact with or affect fish and wildlife evenue sources include Outdoors Card, licence and permit fees, royalties and fines, interest on account funds and the sale of products and services

Revenue sources include Outdoors Card and licence fees, royalties and fines.

The Special Purpose Account annual revenues currently average about $57 million annually based on a 3-year Outdoors Card cycle. Any funds not spent at the end of the fiscal year are protected in the account and are available for fish and wildlife management in future years.
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The money stays within the MNR. No if's, and's or but's about it. Why won't this myth of it being general funds die already.

Dimitri
 
Superbrad said:
Because it isn't a myth... Explain why tags have gone way up over the last ten years while mnr budget has gone way downm..
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Budget got cut the most under Harris, when he was trying to get rid of the debt we inherited from Ray.

The 2012 budget called for $70 million in cuts over 3 years, or 10% of the budget of the MNR, that comes from General funds. This past year budget (2013) restored $40 million in those 3 years.

The MNR has been the bastard child of the government the last couple of decades. As it's a department that doesn't effect the government's bottom line, like say the MTO, and doesn't cause a issue with the voting population such as the MEdu, MTCU etc.

License fees go up to match what the government cuts from their budget, as the Ministry still needs that money to operate, even if they are currently somewhat crippled due to lack of funds. Licensing money is only part of their budget, it is not all of it.

Dimitri
 
Dimitri said:
Budget got cut the most under Harris, when he was trying to get rid of the debt we inherited from Ray.

The 2012 budget called for $70 million in cuts over 3 years, or 10% of the budget of the MNR, that comes from General funds. This past year budget (2013) restored $40 million in those 3 years.

The MNR has been the bastard child of the government the last couple of decades. As it's a department that doesn't effect the government's bottom line, like say the MTO, and doesn't cause a issue with the voting population such as the MEdu, MTCU etc.

License fees go up to match what the government cuts from their budget, as the Ministry still needs that money to operate, even if they are currently somewhat crippled due to lack of funds. Licensing money is only part of their budget, it is not all of it.

Dimitri
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I don't disagree with you dimitri... My issue is that the funds we spend are obviously not being directed to the area we spend them in... I commend the ministry for wikd turkey introduction (love the hunt).. And their elk intro is apparently going very well... So, as hunters and conservationists we need to ask why tag costs go up yet the ministry budget continues to get slashed..
 
Superbrad said:
I don't disagree with you dimitri... My issue is that the funds we spend are obviously not being directed to the area we spend them in... I commend the ministry for wikd turkey introduction (love the hunt).. And their elk intro is apparently going very well... So, as hunters and conservationists we need to ask why tag costs go up yet the ministry budget continues to get slashed..
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The government can only slash the Budget money, aka the money the ministry gets from general revenues.

Our license fees, fines the ministry gives out, natural resource royalties from lumber/mining etc, is money for the ministry to use in addition, and on top of the money the Provincial Government gives them.

Two separate dollar figures.

Dimitri
 
Dimitri said:
The government can only slash the Budget money, aka the money the ministry gets from general revenues.

Our license fees, fines the ministry gives out, natural resource royalties from lumber/mining etc, is money for the ministry to use in addition, and on top of the money the Provincial Government gives them.

Two separate dollar figures.

Dimitri
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Then feel free to explain to me why our license fees went up 45 percent while ministry staff is being cut and we are paying an american agency to handle our tags...
 
Superbrad said:
Then feel free to explain to me why our license fees went up 45 percent while ministry staff is being cut and we are paying an american agency to handle our tags...
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Even with the "jacked up" fees, the Ministry makes $57 million a year with the funds for the special purpose account.

The Ministry's TAX based budget, is $711 million for FY2012.

See the issue?

Licenses etc are a drop in the bucket compared to how much money the Ministry actually spends.

Dimitri
 
Superbrad said:
I don't disagree with you dimitri... My issue is that the funds we spend are obviously not being directed to the area we spend them in... I commend the ministry for wikd turkey introduction (love the hunt).. And their elk intro is apparently going very well... So, as hunters and conservationists we need to ask why tag costs go up yet the ministry budget continues to get slashed..
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You are confusing "budget" with funds directed to "programs." The MNR budget comes from the general coffer, the licence fee fund contributes to wildlife related projects, which "may" indirectly offset specific budget requirements. There was a time in Ontario history that our licence fees DID go straight into the general coffers... OFAH and other organizations, as well as Ontario Outdoors folk lobbied successfully to have this practice stopped.
 
I think you guys are confusing the issue... At the end of the day as a "consumer" all I care about is that I am getting value for my money... If something skrockets in price there should be justification... You can talk about license fees being x and budget beimg y all day but let's not forget that the mnr gets a tax portion as well.... It all comes down to govornment spending issues and at the end of the day, the increased price and reduced service is an issue...
 
I'm not following the reduced service that you claim. You can now buy your tags online, enter draws online...the only difference was they reduced the amount of paper copies because businesses always reported a surplus of them that they just throw out in December. Every hunter I know downloads the regs...I keep a soft copy on my phone for quick reference. I realize some people are not too computer literate, so they can call the mnr and have a hard copy shipped right yo their house, or go to s local retailer and pick up a copy if they have any left. The fees go up every year. Get over it, move on. If things start to get crazy, they will notice a big decline in Hunter numbers and adjust accordingly.
 
Superbrad said:
I used to only have to have a sticker on my card and a tag to place on the animal... It cost me 23 bucks.. Follow now?
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So what are you upset about the lack of the little sticker?

License fees go up, that is life, especially when the Ministry tries to compensate for a reduction in tax money available from the government's budget.

The $50 tag is as cheap as a box of "premium" ammunition and less then the cost of a hunter orange jacket and hat.

Dimitri
 
Dimitri said:
So what are you upset about the lack of the little sticker?

License fees go up, that is life, especially when the Ministry tries to compensate for a reduction in tax money available from the government's budget.

The $50 tag is as cheap as a box of "premium" ammunition and less then the cost of a hunter orange jacket and hat.

Dimitri
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It's not the money... it's the principle... Hunting is an activity that generates millions in tax revenue, there is no excuse for the MNR budget being slashed to the point it has been and jacking up licenses to "compensate" is just wrong....
 
Dimitri said:
Our license fees, fines the ministry gives out, natural resource royalties from lumber/mining etc, is money for the ministry to use in addition, and on top of the money the Provincial Government gives them.
Dimitri
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You are wrong about fees from lumber going to the MNR, the stumpage portion goes into General Revenue. There are 2 trust funds set up that puts aside money for renewal and a forestry futures trust, where the money goes back into forestry management activities and is used by the SFL companies (Tembec, Domtar, etc). I manage one of the trust funds so I know exactly where the money goes.
 
Superbrad said:
I used to only have to have a sticker on my card and a tag to place on the animal... It cost me 23 bucks.. Follow now?
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No I don't follow. My first deer tag cost $38, and it was a sticker on the card. Now it's $47. Boo freaking hoo, get over it, if you don't like it don't buy one.
 
The problem lies with the fact that the price of the tag goes up steadily every year and will undoubtedly continue to go up. I think they need to freeze it at $50 so theres no surprise next year.
 
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