Ontario Improving Moose Management and Hunting Allocations

On pipeline and hydro lines they use Tordon—a very persistent chemical.
Forestry Regen plots are sprayed with glyphosate—Roundup herbicide. It knocks the poplar back to allow sunlight to reach replanted spruce and pine.
I don’t think the few remaining mills we have left face a fibre supply problem therefore stop spraying. Again that is a political problem not a forestry one.
 
Londonshooter said:
The Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry is quite transparent in publishing draw tag allocations. It would be nice to see the same openness in accounting for those free-to-them tags of outfitters who may have a few cottages that they rent to tourists at escalated prices because they include access to your resources in form of guaranteed year after year moose tags. If you don't think there is a 4-tier system with regular joes at the bottom applying like suckers then you don't have a full understanding of how the system works - the deep pocket clients basically buy a moose tag included in their cabin rent, the first nations and predators are permitted to go unregulated, and the rest of Ontario hunters wring our hands trying to find best way to work the draw system as a multiyear-year plan toward that one successful year of drawing a bull.
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Not so. Outfitters are subject to the whims of the Government like everybody else. LUP's are not free.
Numbers and types of allotted tags changes depending on what the MNR decides, year to year.
A lot of these guys are good hard working people with huge financial investments in their companies.
Try running a business that depends on the competency and predictability of the Ontario Government.
 
I hunted our area for 15 years and never saw a live calf, 5 years ago an outfitter started bear hunting in this area and guess what? Suddenly we are seeing multiple calves every year.
As far as the calf hunting controversy goes, if the experts say only 50% of them survive the first winter would you not want every calf to have the best possible chance of survival to reach maturity? I can't understand how "the experts" expect moose numbers to rebound by increasing the mortality rate of the young stock.
The present system is just a farce .
 
lazyfarmer said:
I hunted our area for 15 years and never saw a live calf, 5 years ago an outfitter started bear hunting in this area and guess what? Suddenly we are seeing multiple calves every year.
As far as the calf hunting controversy goes, if the experts say only 50% of them survive the first winter would you not want every calf to have the best possible chance of survival to reach maturity? I can't understand how "the experts" expect moose numbers to rebound by increasing the mortality rate of the young stock.
The present system is just a farce .
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I agree with this 100%, if calf mortality rates are really 50% then everyone should be bending over backwards to have as many as possible alive to survive the winter. I mean come on the calves are the future of the herd, ask any beef farmer if he kills most of his calves every year.
 
lazyfarmer said:
As far as the calf hunting controversy goes, if the experts say only 50% of them survive the first winter would you not want every calf to have the best possible chance of survival to reach maturity? I can't understand how "the experts" expect moose numbers to rebound by increasing the mortality rate of the young stock.
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This is a popular misconception. The numbers of calves harvested are typically only a small proportion of the total recruitment number in each year. Depending on your starting point, in an effective game management system that allows the harvest of calves, you're likely also going to see a shift in the proportions of tags, with increased bull and decreased cow harvest numbers. In generalized terms, you're saving reproductive adult cows that would have otherwise been harvested. Considerable research has been done on the subject in Alaska and Scandinavia, and in the latter case they take substantially higher numbers of calves.

SELECTIVE HARVEST MANAGEMENT OF A NORWEGIAN MOOSE POPULATION (pdf)
 
CV—thank you for that PDF. Very informative
It confirms my observation that in any given year, irrespective of weather there is a large percentage of cow moose that are barren.
Unlike doe deer they all don’t get bred—or at least they don’t all settle. Also it makes a big difference in the size of the calves if the cow was bred in the 1st estrus cycle rather than the 2nd.
 
kkahmann said:
CV—thank you for that PDF. Very informative It confirms my observation that in any given year, irrespective of weather there is a large percentage of cow moose that are barren. Unlike doe deer they all don’t get bred—or at least they don’t all settle. Also it makes a big difference in the size of the calves if the cow was bred in the 1st estrus cycle rather than the 2nd.
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Biology and game management is certainly far more complicated than we often give credit. On moose, in particular, folks ought to talk to Vince Crichton. Bit of a polarizing figure, but if you want to know everything you wanted to know about moose, and probably a few things you didn't want to know, and have a few hours to kill, he's probably your man.
 
CV —I’ve interacted with Dr Harold Cummings and Tim Timmerman before—both very knowledgeable and good guys. I’ve never met Dr Crichton but he strikes me as anti-hunting.
 
North shore—I have some experience with beef cattle—in Montana our calves are shipped every Fall generally the last part of September first part of October. Every single one—none are even kept for replacement heifers—they come from breeding farm. Of course the calves are fed out for about a year but they all get slaughtered.
Moose aren’t domesticated of course so you can’t really compare farming practices with game management
Just saying
 
The issue at hand is not maintaining a stable population of moose but to increase the present one. Shooting any calves regardless of the number has to hurt the overall survival rate. Increasing cow tags to offset calf tags sales would be equally detrimental.
We are having to endure pain now for no foreseeable gain, maybe a bull only draw would help. Breeding stock has to come from someplace.
 
kkahmann said:
North shore—I have some experience with beef cattle—in Montana our calves are shipped every Fall generally the last part of September first part of October. Every single one—none are even kept for replacement heifers—they come from breeding farm. Of course the calves are fed out for about a year but they all get slaughtered.
Moose aren’t domesticated of course so you can’t really compare farming practices with game management
Just saying
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Management of the breeding herd is important in both game and farm animal populations . If you don't have a plan to replenish your aging herd then you will soon have empty forests or an empty barn.
 
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