ONTARIO MOOSE HUNTERS! Any support for a boycott?

9.3mauser

9.3mauser

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I'd like to do this as a poll, but for some reason can't find the appropriate box to check off.

There are a lot of rumblings of discontent over the proposed changes to the moose hunt. I'd like to get a feel for how many are ready to put their money where their mouth is and support a boycott of licence purchases this spring. I've tried writing letters to the minister responsible before, but either get ignored, or get a reply to the effect of, everybody else is happy with it, so we're not going to change anything.

I think the only way to get their attention is hit them in their pocket book. The question is, are there enough hunters selfless enough to make difference. It would mean sacrificing not only this season, but your pool 1 status for the following season if the system doesn't change.

I posed a similar question on the OOD forum, but the responses so far are not encouraging.

btw, does anybody know what I'm doing wrong in regards to setting up a poll?
 
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i've advised as many hunting buddies as i can. i'm really terrible at writing letters and such but will do what i can, let me know if there is a petition or something to sign.
 
9.3mauser said:
I'd like to do this as a poll, but for some reason can't find the appropriate box to check off.

There are a lot of rumblings of discontent over the proposed changes to the moose hunt. I'd like to get a feel for how many are ready to put their money where their mouth is and support a boycott of licence purchases this spring. I've tried writing letters to the minister responsible before, but either get ignored, or get a reply to the effect of, everybody else is happy with it, so we're not going to change anything.

I think the only way to get their attention is hit them in their pocket book. The question is, are there enough hunters selfless enough to make difference. It would mean sacrificing not only this season, but your pool 1 status for the following season if the system doesn't change.

I posed a similar question on the OFAH forum, but the responses so far are not encouraging.

btw, does anybody know what I'm doing wrong in regards to setting up a poll?
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I haven't hunted moose in almost 20 years. Quit out of frustration. I do think it is extremely frustrating the way they treat you guys, but I really doubt a boycott would work. If 100,000 hunters refused to buy their license this year, it would result in a $5.5M loss to the government. That is peanuts to a gang that spends billions on E-Health, Orange, Gas plants, Office buildings, etc. I don't know, offhand, what would work, but my suspicion is that you would be punishing yourself by not hunting this year and being out of the draw (to all intents and purposes) next year.
 
If you boycott the hunt, they might just cancel the hunt because of an apparent lack of interest. I'm frustrated too but I'm not sure what boycotting will accomplish. They need to have a province-wide bear cull and implement measures to control native hunting. And they should change the system to a point system that would be more fair for hunters. Just my 2 cents.
 
What is the problem and what is it you are protesting?
I'm a long way from Ontario, but all the reports I hear is that moose are getting scarcer as every year passes. Is this legislation, whatever it is, in line with good conservation practices to enhance moose populations?
In other words, the way I hear it from this far off post is that something has to be done to increase the moose, or there will soon be none to hunt.
I hope someone can explain it to me.
 
H4831 said:
What is the problem and what is. it you are protesting?
I'm a long way from Ontario, but all the reports I hear is that moose are getting scarcer as every year passes. Is this legislation, whatever it is, in line with good conservation practices to enhance moose populations?
In other words, the way I hear it from this far off post is that something has to be done to increase the moose, or there will soon be none to hunt.
I hope someone can explain it to me.
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I'd like to see some hard numbers on moose populations. There is no doubt that deer numbers are wayyyy down here, but moose, not so sure. I see an awful lot of sign and moose here in Eastern Ontario as well as in NE Ontario. There is as much sign now as 20 years ago and from what I've seen the numbers do not seem to have changed much - but again, that's just my own observation.
 
Slooshark1 said:
If you boycott the hunt, they might just cancel the hunt because of an apparent lack of interest. I'm frustrated too but I'm not sure what boycotting will accomplish. They need to have a province-wide bear cull and implement measures to control native hunting. And they should change the system to a point system that would be more fair for hunters. Just my 2 cents.
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I doubt they could afford to cancel the moose hunt, this may work if everyone or at least 50 to 60% would honestly do it, I'm for it.
 
galamb said:
For those who don't hunt moose here is a bit of a run down about what we are getting at/upset with here.

Getting an adult moose tag is like the antlerless deer tags in Ontario - you have to put in to a draw for the specific WMU you wish to hunt.

There are two different levels of "pools" - pool 2 and pool 1

Each WMU has a set number of tags for Bulls and Cows.

Moose hunting is also totally geared to "group hunting".

Since tags are generally difficult to draw, due to low numbers of tags compared to the number of hunters you have to submit as a group of say 6, 8 or possibly 12 or more hunters, all being in pool 1 to possibly draw a single adult tag.

The "group" enters the draw for say a Bull in WMU 16 OR a Cow in WMU 16 - all group hunters enter as a single applicant to the draw.

If you drew a tag last year or were not in the draw last year you are in pool 2.

If you were in the draw but didn't get an adult tag last year (or for any number of years past, uninterrupted) you are in pool 1.

If you didn't get an adult tag (either bull OR cow, but not both) your licence is/was good for a calf moose in ANY WMU.

When you put in with a group (pretty much the only way to get any adult tag) as soon as "anyone" in that group draws a tag, all others are removed from the process. The one who actually got the tag would move to pool 2 the following year, all the others would remain as pool 1 hunters.

Tags are allocated "randomly" first amongst pool 1 hunters/WMU and then if any are left over after all the pool 1 hunters are done, then pool 2 hunters until all the tags are gone. In most cases there are more pool 1 hunters than tags so many to the majority of pool 1 hunters don't get a tag for any given year.

That could/would result in say 1 bull tag for 12 hunters (or whatever your group size was), plus 11 calf tags OR NO adult tags, so simply 12 calf tags.

If you ended up not hunting with the group you submitted with you would only have a calf tag unless it was you who drew the adult tag for a specific WMU.

If "no-one" in the group drew an adult tag (actually more common than you may think) then your entire group would only have calf tags.

Now they want to limit the calf season, which used to run the entire season, to two weeks, running just before the traditional gun season for deer (so the calf season would run last two weeks of October).

Some of us hunt in Northern Ontario where the moose season opens the third week of September. So if we don't pull an adult tag we would have to wait until the 2nd or 3rd week of October to hunt calves (instead of hunting them back in September as has been the case for 20 or more years now).

This could result in having to buy tags "this year" just to keep our "pool position", hoping to pull an adult tag "next year or in some future year" even though it's probably not "logistically viable" to hunt "any moose" this year due to the late calf season.

And if we didn't pull next year either then the MNR would get all the licence fees from the entire group (over 600 bucks for a group of 12) just to keep their pool position with little to no chance than any of them would hunt in the year they bought the licence.

So if any Moose hunter doesn't buy a tag this year, whether or not they plan on hunting, they will lose their pool position and have to start over from scratch when they do decide to get back into the draws.

I "know" I won't go north for a calf in late October but if I (and my hunting buddies) don't fork over (almost) 60 bucks to stay in the game we most certainly won't have an adult tag next year (or some future year if we don't get drawn next year either)

The system is convoluted to say the least and this is just adding multiple layers of crap on top of it...
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I stole this from another thread... explains it pretty well and saves me a lot of typing. I understand that some type of draw is necessary because there simply aren't enough moose to go around, but hunting calves is destroying future prospects IMO, but the MNR won't let it go because they're addicted to the revenues generated by over the counter calf tags.

I've been letter writing for years, but they are completely close-minded to the subject; they either ignore you or come back with the reply most hunters are happy with the draw the way it is. A boycott of 60-70% would really get their attention, but it doesn't seem like there's enough support to make it work.
 
I won't be buying a tag this year. Its going to cost nearly the same for me to hunt caribou in northern BC as it would for me to drive north for moose camp... With a calf tag. Explain that to me!
 
Hit them where it hurts and they'll stand up and take notice. If the majority of us did this they will be forced to listen up or face job losses due to revenue loss.

There will always be some people that will take advantage of the boycott if it were to happen but in the end a year (or 2) of low hunting pressure would only help the population anyways. Take up bear hunting instead and we would only be providing more help for the moose, even if its just for this year.
 
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waltman said:
Hit them where it hurts and they'll stand up and take notice. If the majority of us did this they will be forced to listen up or face job losses due to revenue loss.

There will always be some people that will take advantage of the boycott if it were to happen but in the end a year (or 2) of low hunting pressure would only help the population anyways. Take up bear hunting instead and we would only be providing more help for the moose, even if its just for this year.
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The only problem with that is that even if no one bought a tag in 2015, it would be a loss of less than $5M, a drop in the bucket for the spend-happy Lieberals. Also, I'm sure the WWF, Sierra Club or one of those other groups would gladly cough up the cash if it meant no more baby moose being slaughtered by knuckle-dragging rednecks. At this time, I have no idea of how to do it, but there must be another way to put pressure on the MNR - maybe a campaign of non-cooperation with CO's, flooding them with reports and calls (legit, but massive numbers), I really have no idea as to what would be effective, but look at what other groups have done in the past. Take a page out of the eco-Nazi's playbook.
 
Problem is all the conservation measures in the world will not help a species that is targeted by a group that does not require tags, no seasonal restrictions and will sell meat and finds full size moose to hard to deal with. All being condoned/ignored by the Ontario government which set the "hands off "precedent at Caledonia. Like a retired MNR CO said to me years ago we chase a truck loaded with deer to the edge of the reserve and then go arrest a white guy with one that is trying to feed his family. The problem starts at the top.
 
hunter148 said:
Problem is all the conservation measures in the world will not help a species that is targeted by a group that does not require tags, no seasonal restrictions and will sell meat and finds full size moose to hard to deal with. All being condoned/ignored by the Ontario government which set the "hands off "precedent at Caledonia. Like a retired MNR CO said to me years ago we chase a truck loaded with deer to the edge of the reserve and then go arrest a white guy with one that is trying to feed his family. The problem starts at the top.
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:agree:
 
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