Ontario Moose Hunters - MNR survey
- Thread starter deerfarmer
- Start date
I've hunted with Ojibway and 90% of them are ok in my book.They feed the old first then themselves and then us.Hunting with a card carrying Native is an experience (wild feeling I guess) But there are a few renegades that hate the Council and Chiefs and will do almost anything to rebel,just like white punks.Those are the trouble makers you here about and cause the trouble.Some are so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything,usually due to substance abuse,poverty,no education just like any society.That's the people that cause white hunters to become bitter IMO.
I will also say I haven't seen any first hand out and out slaughter of game.
I hunt a little south of Moosonee (WMU 25). A good chunk of the WMU is on Cree land and in years past we have been invited to hunt on their land as well.
In all the years hunting up there (40'ish years now) we have run across a "couple" Cree hunters, a number of trappers and a few fisherman.
So at least where I hunt I have not seen evidence, nor got the impression that they were out shooting everything in sight.
On the other hand there is a "regular" at my store that hunts deer in Eastern Ontario and prior to the gun season he often boasts of having shot a dozen or more deer with his crossbow. Now I don't know what he does with all the deer and I find it hard to swallow that a reserve within spitting distance of a few sizable cities is "living traditionally" since he drives a tricked out truck with an atv on the back and shoots the highest end crossbow (while buying his deer scents from where I work). And that is where I see some conflict - if you are going to live "traditional" that's fine, but if you are going to live the "city life" maybe you should have to abide by some of the measures the rest of us have to follow.
I hunt a little south of Moosonee (WMU 25). A good chunk of the WMU is on Cree land and in years past we have been invited to hunt on their land as well.
In all the years hunting up there (40'ish years now) we have run across a "couple" Cree hunters, a number of trappers and a few fisherman.
So at least where I hunt I have not seen evidence, nor got the impression that they were out shooting everything in sight.
On the other hand there is a "regular" at my store that hunts deer in Eastern Ontario and prior to the gun season he often boasts of having shot a dozen or more deer with his crossbow. Now I don't know what he does with all the deer and I find it hard to swallow that a reserve within spitting distance of a few sizable cities is "living traditionally" since he drives a tricked out truck with an atv on the back and shoots the highest end crossbow (while buying his deer scents from where I work). And that is where I see some conflict - if you are going to live "traditional" that's fine, but if you are going to live the "city life" maybe you should have to abide by some of the measures the rest of us have to follow.
what does living traditionally have to do with it natives have a treaty rights with the Canadian government to hunt and gather year round regardless of how you feel that's the way it is. I wish I could own a prohibited firearm but I'm to young I can't help when I was born so I'm going to go to every gun show and curse and ##### at people buying up all the prohibited guns thinking there better then me because they have right granted to them buy the government that I can never get
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
During my years as a LEO I was assigned to two calls where First Nations persons were shooting moose and deer at night. In each case they were driving down a maintained road and shooting the game with the aid of spotlights and hunting rifles. On each occasion they had harvested big game and were still hunting. After all the evidence was gathered (no seizures) and presented to the Crown the word was "no reasonable prospect of a conviction" meaning no charges. The MNR would not even touch the situations preferring to " leave it in police hands". I have to admit they had treaty rights and no one was endangered with the action so no harm no foul. Still I rarely camp too far off of the road anymore just in case. Is this frustrating for sport hunters ? you bet, but we are sport hunters not sustenance hunters acting under treaty rights. Sport hunting rules apply to sport hunters end of argument.
Darryl
Darryl
A Chapleau area man has been fined $1,250 for carelessly hunting moose. Andrew “Solly” Neshawabin, a resident of Brunswick House First Nation, was found guilty and fined $1,250. He was also ordered to complete the Ontario Hunter Education Program before hunting again in Ontario.
The court heard that on October 22, 2010, at kilometre 7 on Hebner Road in the Chapleau Crown Game Preserve, Neshawabin observed four moose standing on the crest of a hill. Neshawabin stopped his vehicle in the middle of the road, walked approximately 10 metres to the front of the vehicle and fired four rounds from his high-powered rifle down the road at a bull moose on the crest of the hill.
The court determined that when Neshawabin fired the four shots down the road, he was unmindful of what was beyond the crest of the hill; the court further determined that Neshawabin had discharged his rifle without due care and attention for people and property. Hebner Road is a primary forest access road maintained by the forestry industry.
Justice of the Peace Monique Mechefske heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Chapleau, on June 11, 2014.
To report a natural resources violation, call 1-877-TIPS-MNR (847-7667) toll-free any time or contact your local ministry office during regular business hours. You can also call Crime Stoppers anonymously at 1-800-222-TIP
Sometimes they do get charged but not often enough.
We talked to the CO's one year moose hunting and we were told the only charge that sticks in regards to natives hunting is if they are hunting in an area that is actively being logged and it is posted no hunting, they are considered to be endangering life at that point. Pretty much anything else gets thrown out by the judge so it is a waste of time to lay the charge.
cdn1canhunt
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- southwestern ontario
Not to make this thread an attack on the native community but I think some of the issue lies in defining "rights and privileges
" The native community feels that they have the "right" to harvest the game they feel is theirs. The non-native hunters are provided the opportunity to hunt game as a privilege. The problem lies in the management of those 2 things.
Wild game is a resource that must be managed to maintain a balance. Managing a resource works like a chain link (you're only as strong as the weakest ) you can not allow part of the group of managers to harvest with abandon and tell the rest that you can manage the what ever is left. The resource is a whole it can't be broken down and managed to satisfy both groups for political gain.
Example: let's call the moose population an apple orchard. We are going to allow 2 groups to harvest the apples. One group can pick whatever apples they want and the other group can only harvest red ripe apples. So group one takes small apples, big apples, unripe apples etc. and in doing so they damage a few Apple buds in the process. Then group 2 come and take the ripe apples. For the a few years both groups are happy and content as there is lots of apples for both groups.....but after a few seasons the group that harvests ripe apples there harvest numbers start to fall off. Then after another season or 2 even the group that is allowed to harvest any Apple, their harvest starts to fall off. Then after awhile the orchard has to be closed to harvest to allow the trees to recover from the damages that were inflicted because the apple trees were not managed the same by the 2 harvest groups.
IMO until the government looks at the moose population as a whole that requires it to be managed as a whole by all the managers of the resource and paint both groups with the same regulations for the harvest. They will have a difficult time defining the decline and truly having a sustainable Strategy to manage the resource to satisfy both native and non-native hunters
" The native community feels that they have the "right" to harvest the game they feel is theirs. The non-native hunters are provided the opportunity to hunt game as a privilege. The problem lies in the management of those 2 things.
Wild game is a resource that must be managed to maintain a balance. Managing a resource works like a chain link (you're only as strong as the weakest ) you can not allow part of the group of managers to harvest with abandon and tell the rest that you can manage the what ever is left. The resource is a whole it can't be broken down and managed to satisfy both groups for political gain.
Example: let's call the moose population an apple orchard. We are going to allow 2 groups to harvest the apples. One group can pick whatever apples they want and the other group can only harvest red ripe apples. So group one takes small apples, big apples, unripe apples etc. and in doing so they damage a few Apple buds in the process. Then group 2 come and take the ripe apples. For the a few years both groups are happy and content as there is lots of apples for both groups.....but after a few seasons the group that harvests ripe apples there harvest numbers start to fall off. Then after another season or 2 even the group that is allowed to harvest any Apple, their harvest starts to fall off. Then after awhile the orchard has to be closed to harvest to allow the trees to recover from the damages that were inflicted because the apple trees were not managed the same by the 2 harvest groups.
IMO until the government looks at the moose population as a whole that requires it to be managed as a whole by all the managers of the resource and paint both groups with the same regulations for the harvest. They will have a difficult time defining the decline and truly having a sustainable Strategy to manage the resource to satisfy both native and non-native hunters
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
The Ontario Government looks at the moose hunt as strictly a revenue generator. That's why we can still hunt calves for two weeks. I feel that calf hunting, if required to be reduced to two weeks, should be closed all together.. wait that means about 80% of licence generated revenue would be lost. Better let them hunt calves...
Darryl
Darryl
cdn1canhunt
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- southwestern ontario
If the harvest is to be used as a revenue generater. They will fail miserably to set sustainable management goals for any group.
So shooting DOWN the length of a public road while standing in the CENTER of this road on NON Treaty land 2 days before the LEGAL Moose season begins in this area with a high powered rifle to drop a bull Moose ISNT DOING ANYTHING WRONG???? Then this fella gets on his cell phone, calls his buddy, they chain saw the animal in half, put it into the backs of their trucks and drive off into the sunset. Ya, sounds LEGIT to me.
I'm about ready to sell anything I have that I use for Moose hunting, as a LEGAL hunter, I dont stand a chance since I dont poach, spot light, hunt from the road, hunt out of season, hunt animals without tags, etc etc etc, BECAUSE A.) I HAVE ETHICS, AND B.) I WOULD BE SCREWED IF CAUGHT AND HELD TO A MUCH STRICTER SET OF STANDARDS THAN THE NATIVES THAT BREAK ALL OF THE RULES I MENTIONED ARE HELD TO!
Not that you or any other native or non native poacher cares, but the season (2 seasons ago) where this incident took place was one of about 3 years in 13 years that our group actually got a bull tag. Had this bull not been illegally killed, maybe we would have been successful that year. Just sayin....
Very well said. As I posted earlier, "everyone" needs to do their part in managing the moose population and share the responsibility. Maybe the MNR have a plan of action to make it happen --- if so it would be nice to start hearing about it and not just about how licensed hunters are going to have to suffer from the changes coming.
cdn1canhunt
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- southwestern ontario
What is difficult to understand is how the government doesn't seem to see why ensuring good resource management. Which often provides good harvest strategies. Isn't better for all? If they would manage the resource effectively they could satisfy all groups and maintain some revenue.
In saying that I think that the ontario government does a poor job. They are sadly lacking in investing revenue generated by the resource back into the resource. Because of this they do a crapy job of monitoring populations and re-evaluating management strategies for most game species in Ontario. Look at our neighbours to the south they are so far ahead of us in game management it ridiculous. One only has to look at their whitetail deer strategies. Things like "earn a buck, antler point restrictions etc. Until the government is ready to be better managers and spend dollars on it I fear we will continually see situations like the predicament the Ontario moose hunt is in.
In saying that I think that the ontario government does a poor job. They are sadly lacking in investing revenue generated by the resource back into the resource. Because of this they do a crapy job of monitoring populations and re-evaluating management strategies for most game species in Ontario. Look at our neighbours to the south they are so far ahead of us in game management it ridiculous. One only has to look at their whitetail deer strategies. Things like "earn a buck, antler point restrictions etc. Until the government is ready to be better managers and spend dollars on it I fear we will continually see situations like the predicament the Ontario moose hunt is in.
