Operational Shooting Assoc M14 Clinic is OVER... Whaddaya Think ?

[Hungry]

Okay, I'm back home now. Showered and tools are put away. I've got a list of Thank yous to fire out.

* Operational Shooting Association (TimK, Tiriaq) for making it happen at the Milcun facility. Without their encouragement (read: badgering), nothing would have happened this summer since we at OSA have a very full clinic and match schedule.

* A humungous thank you to CockedandLocked for his great karma! He contributed a shim making punch/tool that allowed piles and piles of shims to be kranked out so that we tightened up everyone's gas cylinder assemblies even if we could not remove all the flash suppressors. Without CockedandLocked's kind help, we would experience #### loss.

* All the clinic folks for getting me fatter and proving that why my CGNutz handle is "Hungry". WE were able to feed another 7 people on Sat night after we closed down 'Maple Tree' 100m range at 1900 hrs. Well, the mosquitoes did that for us.

* More behind the scenes members of the Operational Shooting Assoc. who cut the grass around the Milcun cabin and the firing points and also, the 100m mound, then the CQB area down by the 25m point and into the targets. Tiriaq is a tireless helper.

* More of the CGNutz community who stepped up to help prepare the lunch , LeftfootofDoom did the BBQ'ing for a while, AC30 brought out some fabulous chili that seemed to vanish during the cleanup process. , Keebler750 who set up the sliced meat plates, hard to remember since my head was spinning, TimK was running around trying to get people to quit networking and eat more food.

* Thanks to many CGNutters , sensitive enough to realize that we truly can no longer videotape/record the clinics for Operational Security. I regret not being able to crank out clinic videos from this 2007 clinic, but OpSec is a priority for our troops in Azkrakistan.

* I gotta be honest, I wiped out that Clinic post/ sticky during my attempt to clean it up and re-title the entire thread. So now I forgot who brought what fabulous food. All I can say is a humungous thanks for the participants who suffered through the tight cabin classroom.

Yes , we had 16 clinic attendees (not counting TimK and myself). I'm going to be adding more here.

JTA, thanks for that photo. Now I gotta get you to repost it after I just pooched that old thread. OOoops..

RobAK, thanks for the drinks because we sure used them up in the butts on Sunday's walkback to 600m. Many of the 2nd day attendees (6 of them) soon discovered that tightening an M14 is a Science, but scoping that same M14 is truly an artform.

I gotta drop dead, I'm just too tired right now.

Oh yah, another note.... Just a reminder that it was the Operational Shooting Association (yeah, me included ) that brought this clinic to ya !! We just used the Milcun facility and that's what the $ 30 goes towards....

So just to clarify, this M14 Clinic was NOT a Milcun Function/Practice/ Clinic/ Course/ Refresher/Recertification.... it was an Operational Shooting Assoc. sponsored venture (to which I am a humble slave).


Barney

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

The plaudits and praises will ring from others who were present. I want to say the most enjoyable part of the whole weekend was to have a clubhouse, a 100m range with 4x4 targets, and a 600yd range with butts all to ourselves.

The Milcun shooting complex is without parallel in Canada. I have shot on many ranges in Canada, US and Bermuda (!); some military and many civilian. Keith and Linda have a vision that is immediately obvious. We must nurture the Milcun facilities and encourage its development to its remarkable potential.

 

[AC30]

I just want to say a huge thanks to the folks at MilCun (it truly is a fabulous facility) for allowing us the use of the grounds.

Barney and TimK for their absolutely selfless gift of personal time, incredible expertise, tireless coaching, and infectiously fun attitude.
Also the CGNers who attended. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and if I ever need a last meal request I'm picking that one!

All hail Hungry, Zen Buddah Jedi Master of Operational Shooting!

 

[cancer]

Wish I could've made it. Sounds like you guys had some great fun!

 

[Keebler750]

That Operational Shooting Association.....boy, those guys have their act together.

Also, it's amazing to me that the unmodified Norinco battle rifle knock-off can hit 600M targets with the 'factory' iron sights. UNREAL!!! Only the Operational Shooting Association gives us the opportunity to do things, and see things like this!!!

And good food!!!

Nowhere have I eaten so well as at Operational Shooting Association events like the Operational Pistol Match, or the Service Rifle Match at Connaught, or the Precision Rifle clinic.

I bet the Operational Shooting Association's 3-Gun match in August will be excellent as usual. I'm looking forward to it.

Good food. Good times. Great training. The Operational Shooting Association. Call now, operators are standing by.



Oh.....hi, Tim!!!

 

[tiriaq]

Hungry knows more about these rifles, and how to tweak them than anyone I have ever met. And he certainly knows how to teach, and I say that as someone who taught for 35 years. If you have never experienced TimK's welcoming briefing, you have really missed something.
It was really interesting to see number of these rifles, purchased at different times - there is quite a bit of variation. The infamous flashider welds can be a challenge. We removed two, neither was intact when we were done. I really think that unless there is a really good reason to do so, leave them in place. And if you do decide to attempt removal, have a replacement available beforehand. Of course, there was one FH which clearly showed welds, but which was rattling loose.
We reindexed one barrel that was about 5 degrees out. No reason for a brand new rifle to leave the factory with a barrel that far off. The little set screw in the right receiver wall is a complicating factor if barrel work is to be done. Serves no useful purpose.
It was noted that a Norinco barrel was .015" smaller than a US barrel in the area that would be threaded if an 18.5" version were being set up. Make sure that a new muzzle unit is going to work before threading.
The MilCun Marksmanship Complex is remarkable, and the Operational Shooting Association is fortunate to be able to access the property. OSA is not the club for you if you want to go plinking casually with a .22. But if you are interested in service pistol, CQB, service rifle, precision rilfe, you will not find better shooting opportunities. OSA goes out of its way to make sure that shooters new to these disciplines receive professional level instruction.
I have attended a number of OSA events since its founding. Good people, good shooting, good food. Check your calendar for the August weekends when there will be a practice day (bring lots of ammunition), and a 3 gun 2 day match (service pistol, CQB, precision rifle). You can shoot as a guest.
Incidentally, if anyone is interested in an Israeli Nimrod scope, ideal for installation on a dewat, cheap......

 

[JTA]

Thanks again guys. I had a great time. I am really hoping to make it to the practice shoot in August.

 

[Leg]

Had a great time, and I learned a ton of information. This is the best $30 I've ever spent on guns. Hell, some pistol grips cost more than that.

Very satisfying making up my own shims from the die that Cocked&Locked whipped up for Barney, props to you for a great job.

A big thanks to tiriaq for rebarrelling my rifle. Now if I could only remember where I've hidden that GI gaslock and bolt. Still need a flash hider, but I'll pull out the dremel today and see if I can salvage the one intact one that I have left.

The biggest thanks goes out to Barney (and Tim) for putting on this clinic. You have passed on a ridiculous amount of info, I'm sure that I'll forget some of it, and I'll start harassing you in the future for more tips and guidance.

It's always nice to be able to put some faces to the names on the board.

 

[gw]

As already said by others this clinic was a wonderful learning experience. A big thank you to Hungry, Tim K, and Tiriaq, for their time, patience and enthusiasm and to Milcum for use of their great facility.

 

[O'Kelly's Boys]

Thanks again guys. I had a great time. I am really hoping to make it to the practice shoot in August.

Nice kit that

What a great weekend.

Learned a ton about my rifle and met some great guys.

It was a good learning experience, not just soaking up Barney's wisdom, but talking to everyone else and seeing their kit.

A common theme was the 'confidence factor' that was gained by attending the clinic. Confidence in knowing your rifle.

Sunday morning at the range was a hoot. This weekend was the first time I had shot my Nork and I was interested to see what it (and I) could do out to 600m. I think I got the Service Rifle Bug cause I want to do that again! What an incredible facility Milcun is and to think it will only get better.

Sincere thanks to Barney and Tim (OSA) for putting together a great learning experience and absolutly fun time.

Also want to say thanks to the guys for helping me pack my kit around.

For all you that missed it, to bad so sad cause you missed a great show.

Cheers,

O'Kelly's Boys

 

[maxim08]

It was a great day at Milcun with the M14/305 guys. While I learned a lot of neat things about these guns, the best tip by far was Barney showing me how to glass bed into a USGI stock without glass/epoxy/liquid metal etc. No filler, no unnatural additives I suspect is the key.
The range and weather were great. Only rained when no one was shooting.
If Barney and Tim host another at Milcun I'll go just for the fun factor.
Thanks to everyone involved.

Regards,
Maxim08

 

[robstar]

Sounds like an amazing time !! I hope to pick up an M14 on the next shipment and make one of these clinics... when's the next one?

rob

 

[RobAK]

As stated by the others, this was a great time! Thanks to Barney, and Tim for the great learning environment and atmosphere (Tim's briefing set the pace for the day!). I finally got to put my Norc M14 into the Sage Chopmod chassis that's been screaming for it since January, and I have the honor of having the first Norc rear sight assembly that Barney felt was adequate as is! So, I have added just over another 3 pages of notes to the page and a half I made from the DVD, but if another clinic is held I'll definitely attend again, if for no other reason than to see what everyone else is doing to their guns! I learned so much, and I'm sure I missed as much while getting absorbed into my own gun.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

... and I have the honor of having the first Norc rear sight assembly that Barney felt was adequate as is!

RobAK has it right. OKelly'sBoys shot his box stock Norinco with the potmetal High School shop-class graduate-level engineering and geometry backsights all the way to 600yds. He was as giddy as a school girl hitting 4x4 paper with Portuguese surplus. And not bad for a guy who wasn't in 100% fighting form either.

So that makes two sets of Chinese sights that weren't complete shyte. BUT ... it took the experienced fingers of a Barney to give them the, 'Here kitty kitty!', seal of approval. (My backsight are in the shyte category, and my lockbar Garand pinion is the wrong part for what I needed.) I've got 2 pages of notes as well and a page of smaller brain dump points in my shooting notebook.

For the folks who only can get 100yds at their home ranges, this weekend was an eyeopener.

 

[Polar Man]

Any idea when the DVD will be ready? My dicks hanging by a thread here...

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Any idea when the DVD will be ready? My dicks hanging by a thread here...

Barney explained early on that the last few clinics had amateur videographers. There would be giggling, chatter, hammering and even swearing in the background, or the camera would be set down while the guy put his hands on his guns. Not supreme quality, but a record nonetheless.

Jump ahead to 2007, a number of the participants were serving soldiers learning about their toys and how to shoot them better. Canada is at war, and showing guys faces, voices and possessions can (and has) lead to unwelcome phone calls, threats and harassment of members and their families. The safety of the troops comes ahead of spreading the word, regardless of how good it may be.


Hungry here: MapleLeafEh is right. Operational Security takes a priority over spreading the word to prevent #### loss. Now, I still got many copies of the 2004 clinic. You get to listen to my stale jokes for over 6 hours... that will cost you all of $ 8.00 delivered to you. What a cheap date I am. You will enjoy all the banging and hammering of welded flash suppressors in the background and the odd Skullboy profanity here and there. And that's why I gotta go out west to Calgary since I canned their 2004 Clinic 3 years ago. I gotta step it up for those in Calgristan.

 

[LeftFootOfDoom]

Just adding to the chorus of voices all stating how great an opportunity this past weekend was. The technical knowledge as well as the hands on with the rifles to see exactly what the ringing of a tight rifle sounded, or what the vibrations in the stock should feel on a good tight bedded rifle.
The amount of information available was staggering. Even when in the butts, Tiriaq and Barney would talk about enfields, calibres, conversions, rebarrels etc etc, there was scarcely any time when you werent learning something.
There was so much going on that at times I had to decide which thing I would concentrate on seeing/doing. The only drawback for me was that since Tiriaq had to go offsite to do the rebarrelling/indexing, I was unable to observe him do it.

Then the chance to meet others and listen to them was great. We all learned alot about the progress of humans in places like Finland thanks to Okellys Boys!

The range portion was equally as fantastic as the classroom sessions. Zeroing the rifles with irons and scopes. dont get cheap rings like I did or the allen head screws will strip when you try to tighten the rings and the scope ends up sliding back in the rings and you have to waste time adjusting and levelling the scope again.
The opportunity to shoot out to 600m, and Barney and Tims spot on adjustment suggestions for my scope were great.

Definitely recomment these sessions to everyone. If you go for the next clinic, make sure you stay for the range portion, consider them as the 2 parts of the complete clinic.

I also recommend that anyone who is able attend OSA events. There is supposed to be an event in early August where Barney is willing to have an M14 competition.

Big thumbs up from me. I may just have to change my handle to LeftFootOfSalvation or something "happy".

 

[tiriaq]

It would have been better if everything could have been done at one place, so that all participants could have been involved in all aspects. I had to miss Hungry's afternoon session, so that we could drive up to my place for the barrel work. We discussed the possibility of setting up for barrelling at MilCun, but decided it was just as easy to use my shop. IF a heavy bench and vice had been available, the barrel work could have been done there. As it turned out, no barrel shoulders had to be adjusted on the lathe, although Keebler750's was close. We had hoped that a TIG would be available; to do that at MilCun would have required a generator being brought in; that was another reason that we decided to split the clinic.
If a person has not seen barrel work done before, it is interesting. There is no way that a clinic that size could be hosted at my place, because of space limitations, although a small one would be a possibility. Perhaps could be limited to barrel indexing, rebarrelling, bedding, gnawing at flashider welds, cutting, crowning and threading. Hmmm....

Hungry here: Tiriaq, back in 2002, we ran the first of the M14 clinics here in Collingwood, Jamie one of our mods, attended that one. We hosted it at our Gun Clubhouse up on the mountain. Lots of space, crappy vise (Black and Decker workmate), but we had a range under a foot of snow. Then we held a few here in my basement, big vise, tight space, parkerizing in the kitchen, but no testfiring and walkback. Then in 2004, Skullboy set up the Abbotsford Rod and Gun Clubhouse with a few BIG benches, 2 vise setups, drill press, grinding station, Humungous classroom, and we parkerized outside the bathroom using a Coleman double burner and a brownie pan. Some test firing at 100m outside, but not a serious 4 foot frame. Then I held a newbie clinic limited to 10 people back in my basement.

Long story shorter.... it's hard to find a balance for all different tastes. There have never been variables that have been harder to balance while getting the clinic off the ground. In the past I have invited individuals for rebarreling and parkerizing sessions up to my basement and that worked out well, but still not a great balance.

Like the Buddhists say: You work with what you've got....


Yes, it is pretty hard to meet all needs with the facilities available at any one location. That is why I speculated about an "advanced" clinic. Barrel work, blasting and parking, synthetic bedding. Blast and park under the carport, barrel work in the downstairs shop, bedding could be done upstairs. Could work for what? 6 or 8 participants? Trip down the road to the range. Just something to think about.

Tiriaq: I'm with you. Let's find some time down the road for such an advanced clinic. We need good weather, but a whole day. What say you ? I'm quite open to helping out with this Advanced M14 Clinic, but we gotta beat the bushes.... Gonna have to be a Haliburton venue, I've got my 48" parkerizing stainless steel tank and Coleman double burner stove....

 

[O'Kelly's Boys]

RobAK has it right. OKelly'sBoys shot his box stock Norinco with the potmetal High School shop-class graduate-level engineering and geometry backsights all the way to 600yds. He was as giddy as a school girl hitting 4x4 paper with Portuguese surplus. And not bad for a guy who wasn't in 100% fighting form either.

Ya, I couldn't get my rings/scope setup on target so I switched to irons. It wasn't entirely box stock though, I did have a R-33 guide rod stuck in there.

The 600m was fun. My objective was to just hit the 4x4 and once I got the sights sorted out I managed to keep 4 for 4 on the 4x4. I guess I got a little excited (it is relative after all), but school girlie comparison?...Well, maybe

Cheers,

O'Kelly's Boys

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Now that I think about it, KevinH had a problem we never seemed to correct. His SAGE rifle was short stroking or reloading the empty. That says insufficient gas to me.

KevinH: look to see if the gas plug is tight, finger tight not wrench tight; then look to see if the slot on the nut (forget the name) on the right side of the gas cylinder if horizontal. After that I have to read the books.