Opinion of the U.S. M-14 vs our FN C1 Rifle
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
Well based on use, the M14 is still in use by Special Forces and the Navy Seals, and can be made to shoot nearly as accurately as many bolt rifles. I have no personal experience but based on that I'd vote for the M14.
-Rohann
-Rohann
Not much to add that hasnt already been said. The C1A1 was the rifleman's rifle. following might be pretty disjointed. Its the weekend, and I'm pretty much just thinking out loud...
Little downside to the C1A1. Less ammunition capacity was not only irrelevent, but a deceptive lie about a soldier's capability, especially in section and platoon tactics - where slow rate fire from a group would put 1 round accurately onto an objective every 1-2 seconds.
With 7.62x51mm's power, that was a massive amount of discretionary suppression exercisable at the section commander's whim. Note that he has no equivalent today with his stable of 5.56mm products.
By raw math, with a combat load of 5x 20 rnd mags, the average section could bring 800 rnds of 308 firepower to bear from 4 rapidly manuevering fireteams, not including the automatic rifle NOR the platoon support weapons. Consider the implications of this fact in retrospect...
The C6 GPMG is the primary killing weapon of the infantry platoon, YET it is deployed only at PLATOON level today.
The section continues to remain woefully underpowered. There is an alarming trend to sustain a rediculous belief that all future combat will be unconventional, and occuring at close ranges with today's enemies (calling into great dispute the wisdom of the ELCAN optic site). i think it is coming from gun #### magazines selling the same BS they have sold for the last 40 or so years, based off the latest selling book of expert author so or so...
I wanna be clear that is a monumentally f^cking dumb idea scoring on the same all-time high level as the stupid idea that stated a jet aircraft needs no gun, because air conflict of the future would all be at speeds to great for a turning gunfight.
"Take comfort, erm, soldier! This is the future, and in the future, no one will engage you at long, erm, ranges! The day or the, erm skirmish, is erm, gone" P-L-E-A-S-E...
The average GPMG gunner today may be personally carrying as much as 3x 220 sets of link( IIRC - it is 2.2kg/belt box), and is the dirty harry of the local engagement.
The 5.56mm gopher gun, on the other hand, is for local protection of the MG's. PERIOD. The C9 saw has nice capacity and a voracious sustained rate of fire, but is comparatively anemic compared to 308 capability. If you dont get that, I'm betting you never passed ISCC or an MG course.
The 308 is great, but as it is really a crew served platform, is quite slow in contrast to the rifleman of old. Do I miss it. By god, yup.
Some international variants had better mods, like the aussie FN's sand grooves on the BB carrier, or the Canadian C1A1 folding cocking lever and half length feed-cover that allowed rapid reload from the stripper clip.
Don't think I've ever seen a C2A1 that was any better than a bolt action rifle mounted on a rickety old bipod.
Getting an M1A socom soon. Comparison will only be off of fond memories of a great rifle.
Little downside to the C1A1. Less ammunition capacity was not only irrelevent, but a deceptive lie about a soldier's capability, especially in section and platoon tactics - where slow rate fire from a group would put 1 round accurately onto an objective every 1-2 seconds.
With 7.62x51mm's power, that was a massive amount of discretionary suppression exercisable at the section commander's whim. Note that he has no equivalent today with his stable of 5.56mm products.
By raw math, with a combat load of 5x 20 rnd mags, the average section could bring 800 rnds of 308 firepower to bear from 4 rapidly manuevering fireteams, not including the automatic rifle NOR the platoon support weapons. Consider the implications of this fact in retrospect...
The C6 GPMG is the primary killing weapon of the infantry platoon, YET it is deployed only at PLATOON level today.
The section continues to remain woefully underpowered. There is an alarming trend to sustain a rediculous belief that all future combat will be unconventional, and occuring at close ranges with today's enemies (calling into great dispute the wisdom of the ELCAN optic site). i think it is coming from gun #### magazines selling the same BS they have sold for the last 40 or so years, based off the latest selling book of expert author so or so...
I wanna be clear that is a monumentally f^cking dumb idea scoring on the same all-time high level as the stupid idea that stated a jet aircraft needs no gun, because air conflict of the future would all be at speeds to great for a turning gunfight.
"Take comfort, erm, soldier! This is the future, and in the future, no one will engage you at long, erm, ranges! The day or the, erm skirmish, is erm, gone" P-L-E-A-S-E...
The average GPMG gunner today may be personally carrying as much as 3x 220 sets of link( IIRC - it is 2.2kg/belt box), and is the dirty harry of the local engagement.
The 5.56mm gopher gun, on the other hand, is for local protection of the MG's. PERIOD. The C9 saw has nice capacity and a voracious sustained rate of fire, but is comparatively anemic compared to 308 capability. If you dont get that, I'm betting you never passed ISCC or an MG course.
The 308 is great, but as it is really a crew served platform, is quite slow in contrast to the rifleman of old. Do I miss it. By god, yup.
Some international variants had better mods, like the aussie FN's sand grooves on the BB carrier, or the Canadian C1A1 folding cocking lever and half length feed-cover that allowed rapid reload from the stripper clip.
Don't think I've ever seen a C2A1 that was any better than a bolt action rifle mounted on a rickety old bipod.
Getting an M1A socom soon. Comparison will only be off of fond memories of a great rifle.
Last edited:
Sgt Striker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Great White North, Eh!
I lugged the C1 around for 15 years, and I now own a M305, and as far feel, ease of matanience and the "pleasuer" of shooting, I would take the M14/M305 any day over the C1. The M14 has a nice push in the shoulder when shooting, and the C1A1 pig would kick me in the face every time I pulled the trigger! I'm 6'3" and needed a long butt, and even when I could get one, I would always walk of the range with a sore face. Get a little dirt on the breach block, and she would jam. I think the Canadians had the best FN, of the countries that used them, but still, give me a M14/305 any day over it.
- Location
- maple ridge b.c
Rohann said:
The FN series rifle is still widley used all over the world,and based on use, who besides the U.S. and Taiwan used them?The rest of the world went FN,HK or AKCmon guys if all the 12-5 prohib rifles were non restricted, we wouln't even be talking about this.
It would look like C1A1 vs G3 or SiG or Galil....
The M-14 is so far down the list as to be included with other stop gap rifles such as the SKS
Sgt Striker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Great White North, Eh!
Just because the FN was a more advanced rifle than the M14, doesn't mean it was better. From the few posts I've read here, most soldiers that have used the C1, and fired a M305, like the M305 better.... If the laws were changed today, and I could buy a FNC1 for 20 bucks tomorrow, I would pass! Now..... I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a FNC how ever.... but that's another story....
300Spartans
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canada of course
true north said:
Cmon guys if all the 12-5 prohib rifles were non restricted, we wouln't even be talking about this.
It would look like C1A1 vs G3 or SiG or Galil....
The M-14 is so far down the list as to be included with other stop gap rifles such as the SKS
I agree. FN-Fal is truly the right arm of the free world.
And after that, its gotta be the G3.
- Location
- maple ridge b.c
sgt striker, I humped a C1A1 as well as a C2,while I have never fired a 305 I have owned an M1A and still do own an Aussie L1A1.As a former soldier I would pick the C1A1 over all others. But to be sure we could ask the former soldiers of Britain,Australia,Austria,Brazil,Argentina,Norway,SouthAfrica,Rhodesia,Germany,Turkey,Belgium and on and on,you get the idea.
The FN series is the best battle rifle ever made!! Says so right on the box.
class,the,top of.
The FN series is the best battle rifle ever made!! Says so right on the box.
class,the,top of.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Sgt Striker said:
Which is kinda funny, because I shot it as a 120 pound cadet and never had a bruise. Today I've fired both, and there is no comparable rapid fire controllability in the m-14 stock setup, it just climbs like mad. Guess we had different shaped faces!
Sgt Striker said:
Amen!
M14 was one of the first rifles I ever shot, way back when, a short while later, an AR15. I saw lots of pictures of FALs and I figured it should be the best of both the M14 and M16 as far as ease of handling and power.
Got to fire a nice like new (originaly RCMP issue) FN C1 Bang, whack, ouch!!! FN FALs SUCK
Having the cocking handle on the left side of the rifle when shooting prone, right handed is a pain in the drain. Safety was always digging into the back of my thumb. Mag release is Mickey Mouse! Sights are to coarse. And I don't care how many other countries used it.
Now, when I slip my left arm through the sling of an M14, flip open the hinged butt plate and lock my right shoulder into it and cheek up to the stock for some serious shooting......heaven
Putting on my flame retardant suit.......
Sticker
So sad but so, so truetrue north said:
Cmon guys if all the 12-5 prohib rifles were non restricted, we wouln't even be talking about this.
It would look like C1A1 vs G3 or SiG or Galil....
The M-14 is so far down the list as to be included with other stop gap rifles such as the SKS
. For a rifle to use out to long range or to mod though, I'd take an M14. The M14 is NOT near the same class as an SKS, however.-Rohann
true north said:
Cmon guys if all the 12-5 prohib rifles were non restricted, we wouln't even be talking about this.
It would look like C1A1 vs G3 or SiG or Galil....
The M-14 is so far down the list as to be included with other stop gap rifles such as the SKS
Well, I can honestly tell you that I spend a lot of time on a big American gun forum as well, where they are still having this argument (roughly.)
Obviously they aren't talking about the C1A1 specifically, but the FAL vs. M14 debate goes on even where both are readily available.
I assume this is because different people have different goals and requirements with their battle rifles.
Having fired all of them in competition at one time or another (M14, FN, HK and AR10) my vote goes to the AR10 as the best 7.62 mm main battle rifle. Light weight, easy to control, good sights and excellent human engineering. It's a pity that the AR15 supersceeded it as the main infantry arm - but that's another story.
Wow! I think you were firing something other than a C1?!!
A one day range session is obviously not enough to show you the full merits of any rifle.
I have shot both the C1 and M-14 extensively. I like them both very much. However, it is not even a discussion point, in that the FN is KING. The way I would describe the FN is that it is the best tool for the job. It's a tool. The M-14, on the other hand can, best be described as "warm". A rifleman's rifle. Lots of wood and heavy metal parts, when put together, makes the package fit and handle extremely well.
In order of preference of MBR's:
AR-10, for the simple fact of ergonimcs
FN, ABC version, with the CDN one the best of the best
M-14, and the M_14 can be made into a very nice precision/sniper rig, whereas the FN sucks in that role, but we aren't talking about sniper rigs.
G-3, although i have never liked the G-3. Way to cumbersome for me, but as reliable as it will get! Hate that cocking handle way up there towards the muzzle (and ya i know it's on the left side!)
LI
Sticker said:Amen!
Got to fire a nice like new (originaly RCMP issue) FN C1 Bang, whack, ouch!!! FN FALs SUCK
recoil is recoil. Learn how to use the rifle amd proper cheeek weld and you won't have an issue with it. helpful tip: There is an adjustable gas regulator on the FN.
Having the cocking handle on the left side of the rifle when shooting prone, right handed is a pain in the drain.
It's on the correct side. Right hand stays on the pistol grip all the time. I'm amazed you had an issue with this. I think its one of the biggest selling points.
Safety was always digging into the back of my thumb.
That, I would think is by individual. I have fat thumbs and never bothered me.
Mag release is Mickey Mouse!
I have no idea why you would think that. As far as rocking/rolling mag releases go, its the best of the bunch. Much better than M-14, however AR style te best.
Sights are to coarse.
Fragile maybe, but coarse???!!! Individual apertures for each range that are individually sized to give you te best sight picture for that particular range does not constitute coarse at any stretch of the imagination. Although the M-14 sights are better suited for minor adjustments for precision shooting.
And I don't care how many other countries used it.
Now, when I slip my left arm through the sling of an M14, flip open the hinged butt plate and lock my right shoulder into it and cheek up to the stock for some serious shooting......heaven
Putting on my flame retardant suit.......
Sticker
A one day range session is obviously not enough to show you the full merits of any rifle.
I have shot both the C1 and M-14 extensively. I like them both very much. However, it is not even a discussion point, in that the FN is KING. The way I would describe the FN is that it is the best tool for the job. It's a tool. The M-14, on the other hand can, best be described as "warm". A rifleman's rifle. Lots of wood and heavy metal parts, when put together, makes the package fit and handle extremely well.
In order of preference of MBR's:
AR-10, for the simple fact of ergonimcs
FN, ABC version, with the CDN one the best of the best
M-14, and the M_14 can be made into a very nice precision/sniper rig, whereas the FN sucks in that role, but we aren't talking about sniper rigs.
G-3, although i have never liked the G-3. Way to cumbersome for me, but as reliable as it will get! Hate that cocking handle way up there towards the muzzle (and ya i know it's on the left side!)
LI
Last edited:
Going back to the subject of the original post...
FN-C1. In fact, Serial Number 8L1404, the first rifle to which I was assigned in Basic training. I really wonder what happened to this rifle...probably a Hyundai bumper strut now.
M-14 has a very high look-cool factor, but The FNC1 has far too much of a nostalgic attachment for me.
Never could figure out how an M14 can be a non-restricted gun, yet the FN is prohib. WTF??
FN-C1. In fact, Serial Number 8L1404, the first rifle to which I was assigned in Basic training. I really wonder what happened to this rifle...probably a Hyundai bumper strut now.
M-14 has a very high look-cool factor, but The FNC1 has far too much of a nostalgic attachment for me.
Never could figure out how an M14 can be a non-restricted gun, yet the FN is prohib. WTF??
