Opinion of the U.S. M-14 vs our FN C1 Rifle
- Thread starter x westie
- Start date
Geeze,
talk about a trip down memory lane.
I remember the Brens.
We were mere kittens then .... lightweight 12 to 14 yr old cadets shooting the .303 Brens.
Amazing thing, these guns actually pulled us mini soldiers FORWARD.
I also personally owned a CA Australian C2 [ or was that L2?? ] with the fantasticmagorical Muzzle brakey/flashider thingy on the end. Never shot that one R&R, but these were the ones that supposedly had the BANG, BANG, JAM third shot issue. Don't remember the Canadian C2s doing this on R&R, but then this was a LONG time ago.
We used to slip a paper match into the gubbins of the C1 and end up with a poor man's R&R. Not much good for anything but noise, but it sure did make nice noise.
talk about a trip down memory lane.
I remember the Brens.
We were mere kittens then .... lightweight 12 to 14 yr old cadets shooting the .303 Brens.
Amazing thing, these guns actually pulled us mini soldiers FORWARD.
I also personally owned a CA Australian C2 [ or was that L2?? ] with the fantasticmagorical Muzzle brakey/flashider thingy on the end. Never shot that one R&R, but these were the ones that supposedly had the BANG, BANG, JAM third shot issue. Don't remember the Canadian C2s doing this on R&R, but then this was a LONG time ago.
We used to slip a paper match into the gubbins of the C1 and end up with a poor man's R&R. Not much good for anything but noise, but it sure did make nice noise.
If you have ever humped a C5 GPMG slung, or carried a Lewis Gun for more than a few seconds you will appreciate the C2.
On the other hand, Give me a Bren or an MAG any day.
This really is taking about apples & oranges though.
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
On the other hand, Give me a Bren or an MAG any day.
This really is taking about apples & oranges though.
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
C2 LEFT!
C2 RIGHT!
HeadDamage said:FAL (pic is of a british one not the C1A1 but they look about the same)
M14
Sorry gents not a Brit that has the wrong butt, the wrong Flash Eliminator and 1 too many vents in the handguard.
Carrying handle too thin and front sling swivel attached too far forward!
Here a British section in the Falklands in 1985!
FN = Battle Rifle.
M-14 = Range Rifle.
AR15 = uh, not sure, really. Ladies' gun?
Purely my thoughts. YMMV!
And I loved the left-side cocking handle, too. When I went through battle school, we were taught to do ALL operation with the left hand...
In fact, if I remember rightly, on our little cheater card that we were issued, the FNC1A1 was described as "left-hand operated, right-hand fired"... (i.e. Operate the saftey selector with the left hand). That was when I was a young and healthy Militia rat in 1989. I shall always remember my rifle with the 1952 manufacture date, that worked perfectly with ball... Had some issues with blank on occasion, but at least I wasn't afraid of that after the MCpl showed me how to "kick start"!
2L6331. I hope she's not a chunk of rebar in a high-rise tower now....
Neal
M-14 = Range Rifle.
AR15 = uh, not sure, really. Ladies' gun?
Purely my thoughts. YMMV!
And I loved the left-side cocking handle, too. When I went through battle school, we were taught to do ALL operation with the left hand...
In fact, if I remember rightly, on our little cheater card that we were issued, the FNC1A1 was described as "left-hand operated, right-hand fired"... (i.e. Operate the saftey selector with the left hand). That was when I was a young and healthy Militia rat in 1989. I shall always remember my rifle with the 1952 manufacture date, that worked perfectly with ball... Had some issues with blank on occasion, but at least I wasn't afraid of that after the MCpl showed me how to "kick start"!
2L6331. I hope she's not a chunk of rebar in a high-rise tower now....
Neal
The M14 handles much better and actually points like a rifle for snap shooting.
C2 was an automatic rifle and not a LMG which the CF tried to make it perform as. Australia retained the Bren as well as the HB FN L2. Two different arms for two different roles.
Do not grab a C2 barrel after FA fire.
C2 was an automatic rifle and not a LMG which the CF tried to make it perform as. Australia retained the Bren as well as the HB FN L2. Two different arms for two different roles.
Do not grab a C2 barrel after FA fire.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Are you kidding me or what? I'am taking this from the 11th edition of SMALL ARMS of the WORLD by E C EZELL." Following test by the Infantry at Fort Benning,Georgia,in 1952 the FN FAL[C1,well the american version of it .the
T48] finished first;the new Springfield entry,the T44 [soon to be the M14]came in a poor second." over 50 countrys are or have used the FN FAL read C1.
to bad their prohibited,that sucks.
and about the C2, wasn't with out its faults.but if you did your part ,kept her clean and the sand out of the mags [don't lean against the brim with the C2 mag bra on :roll: ],a few choice words now and then, she mostly worked
But ,it was no BREN gun.Canada sould have kept the BREN, just rebarrel them for the .308 . We were making them in 7.92 for the Chinese in the 40's so it should have been ease enough.
Two different arms,same role. to provide the Infantry section with a base of fire to suppress the enemy,So we could ..."Close with and destroy the enemy Mcpl."
you're right about not grabing the barrel,but some people just have to learn the hard way . Told you so :lol: .
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
True,no argument there.thats why we use, [used?] the Parker Hale [are we still using the Parker Hale?]
It's interesting on the comment's on the Canadian C-2, the section lmg, about it not as reliable as the Bren, more stoppages, it was lighter to hump that i know!!!,it's interesting how us Canuck's had the best rifle at the time , the C1, a excellent SMG in the Sterling, but were saddled with a LMG that if our guys were in tight situations like our infantry faced in the Korean War there could have been a loss of confidence in the weapon, might have been another Ross rifle story.The people who were responsible for testing the C 2 must have seen that the weapon was finicky compared to the Bren, but somehow the decision was made to dump the Bren, rather than convert to 7.62.
Ja, the BREN is the ne plus ultra for an LMG. Superbly accurate even on full auto (4-to-6 inches at 300m, which we were told wasn't always a good thing) and possesed of legendary reliability.
But based only on my experience with the C2A1s I dragged around for a several years, the C2 (in decent shape) was only slightly less reliable than the BREN. With ball ammo, I don't recall a single stopage that required more than tapping the mag, slapping the cocking handle and squeezing the trigger again. And this included times when platoons would share C2s on the range, IE everyone would bring their "personal" C1 to the line, but us C2 gunners would just bring fresh mags.
There's little doubt in my mind that the C2s wore-out way faster than the BREN, and the accuracy was simply unusable after the first 3 rounds on full auto. With experienced (and fairly big, of course) shooters it was usual to see more than 2 feet between sucessive rounds at 200m. At 300m only the first 2 rounds would impact on the 4ft target.
On the other paw, I'd much rather carry the C2, that extra 10 lbs, plus the related accesories would make a huge difference., so I think that on balance the C2 was the better choice, not the least because of the commonality of parts.
And the belt-fed BREN, I think they called that the MAG-58
:lol:
But based only on my experience with the C2A1s I dragged around for a several years, the C2 (in decent shape) was only slightly less reliable than the BREN. With ball ammo, I don't recall a single stopage that required more than tapping the mag, slapping the cocking handle and squeezing the trigger again. And this included times when platoons would share C2s on the range, IE everyone would bring their "personal" C1 to the line, but us C2 gunners would just bring fresh mags.
There's little doubt in my mind that the C2s wore-out way faster than the BREN, and the accuracy was simply unusable after the first 3 rounds on full auto. With experienced (and fairly big, of course) shooters it was usual to see more than 2 feet between sucessive rounds at 200m. At 300m only the first 2 rounds would impact on the 4ft target.
On the other paw, I'd much rather carry the C2, that extra 10 lbs, plus the related accesories would make a huge difference., so I think that on balance the C2 was the better choice, not the least because of the commonality of parts.
And the belt-fed BREN, I think they called that the MAG-58
:lol:
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Maybe the Brit's couldn't afford ,at the time,the nice shiney new H-BAR auto rifle FN FALs."We'll just soldier on with these old BREN guns,thank you vary much" .they were still using Lee Enfields for sniper rifles, rebarreled to 7.62mm.
And couldn't the british BREN ,L4A2, use FN FAL mags to?
A good LMG is suppose to have a little horizontal play to the spray, area suppression.
And couldn't the british BREN ,L4A2, use FN FAL mags to?
A good LMG is suppose to have a little horizontal play to the spray, area suppression.
Thanks guy's for the very interesting input on the FN C1, C2,and U.S. M 14, there are alot of well informed members on "CGN"who know their stuff . i enjoy reading the very intelligent replies to my question's . Thank's again.
Splatter said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
"Excuse me son, why do you have C2 bras?"
"I'm......uh.......helping the C2 Gunner, sir."
I'd prefer a C1 over my 305 anyday.......it just "felt right"......but that's an old fart's bias.
Leftent - I don't need asbestos knickers... "Commando" all the way!!!
:lol:
Of course, maybe that's the 12 hr night shift playing umpire to the terminally stupid, followed by the two beers for breakfast doing the talking...
:shock:
Whatever...
:mrgreen:
Gotta rendezvous on the range with you one of these days, to bring back the memories of my youth in green queen's clothing, if you'll let me buy ammo and beer in order to get to fondle a real, live, FN FAL!!
Neal
:lol:
Of course, maybe that's the 12 hr night shift playing umpire to the terminally stupid, followed by the two beers for breakfast doing the talking...
:shock:
Whatever...
:mrgreen:
Gotta rendezvous on the range with you one of these days, to bring back the memories of my youth in green queen's clothing, if you'll let me buy ammo and beer in order to get to fondle a real, live, FN FAL!!
Neal
