Opinion of the U.S. M9 Beretta Pistol

over 2 milion actually...

The Beretta 92 design at this point is probably the most common pistol on the planet, I can't think of anything more common. There are a lot of 1911s, Makarovs and BHPs about but I think the Beretta has the edge now. It's been made in the US, Italy, Chile, Spain (in a slightly modified form), Brazil, South Africa in large numbers, the only country that made it in small numbers was France.

Glocks and things like that are common but they just haven't gotten the large Govt. contracts the Beretta has. The armed forces of the US, Italy, Chile, Spain and South Africa all use it. Doesn't Mexico use it now too?

Makarovs and BHPs are around in large numbers but they are generally in the process of being replaced, even the Russians are starting to use 9mm Para now.
 
The problem with the slide breaking was traced to lots of over-pressure ammo supplied by Olin. This was confirmed in testing at Elgin AFB. Peak pressure was over NATO standards. The DoD was thus forced to compensate Beretta for the work they did redesigning the pistol.

Of course you never hear about this in Guns & Ammo, too many .45 lovers.

All FMJ pistol ammo is rubbish in terms of terminal ballistics compared to FMJ rifle ammo. This is why soldiers are usually armed with rifles instead of pistols.

If FMJ pistol ammo was so great everyone would still be using SMGs instead of assault rifles.

I have a large box of broken Beretta slides here. They break far too often for my liking. I find the Berettas to be a little on the fragile side compared to the other modern big name guns. Still they are good guns and most folks shoot with them very well.
 
The US military has decided to move away from 9MM and it won't be going toward 45ACP...
The M9's are ending their service life and won't be replaced with like.
The next series of pistol contracts will be for 'striker fired' models in 40S&W..
You heard it here first!;)
I have had a series of Beretta 92/96 models, but find that I shoot other pistols better...Sig, Glock, etc....
It all comes down to personal preference, but as noted, the US military won't be getting any more M9's, and the next big contract winner will be some model in 40S&W.
 
The US won't ditch 9mm, because it's a NATO standard. All FMJ pistol rounds are pretty hopeless against body armour, 9mm is in fact the best in terms of penetration. There's no way they're going to screw up their supply chain with a slightly bigger pistol bullet. I'm sure this is the reason the JSP went out the window, it just wasn't any better than the Beretta and cost a ton of money so that was the end of it.

I think it's more likely they'll adopt some sort of enhanced 9mm round, in fact they already have and so have the Russians, the next step will see it becoming the NATO standard.

What you are seeing is that some military units in the US are buying a few thousand guns from different companies, such as SIG Arms or Ruger, but they're still 9mm. I think the Beretta will remain the main pistol for US issue for some time to come.

The only thing on the horizon that is likely to change the situation is if NATO finally gets around to standardising a new PDW round. Which will probably be 5.7x28 but the Germans keep objecting.
 
I have a large box of broken Beretta slides here. They break far too often for my liking. I find the Berettas to be a little on the fragile side compared to the other modern big name guns. Still they are good guns and most folks shoot with them very well.

But we're talking milspec though. It meets the US milspec and always has, the broken slide issue was overblown. I'm no great fan of measuring things by milspecs but only the Beretta and the SIG-Sauer made it through the trials, so if the Beretta had problems, the others had more.

FWIW, I owned one of the P226 XM9 test pistols, I bought it off a guy who used to work at Saco Defense. Apparently they sold most of them off to their employees after the tests.

It wasn't a very good gun IMO. These were prototypes and they were not as good as the current production guns by a mile, I'm sure we're all familiar with the problems with the frames cracking on the early P226s. The one I had appeared to have a slightly different frame design than the later commercial ones, but the barrel had bent in front of the chamber slightly and it shot way high.

I have no doubt that the USG made the right decision buying the Beretta, it had been around for eight years at that point, the other guns were all new designs at the time.
 
+1 to everything cybershooters said ;)

I really doubt they'd replace 9mm with .40 for the miltary sidearm; the main difference would be lower ammo capacity and higher cost. In FMJ .40 is not any better and it'd just have less penetration due to bullet profile.
 
hahahaha, the US Military going to .40 yeah in a pig ass. Just like CBSA not picking S&W :eek: oh wait a minute...................
 
The US Coast Guard recently adopted the SigDAK in 40 S&W.
The Marines will continue with small orders of 1911 models in 45ACP for now.
The Air Force was waiting on the joint service trials on a new pistol, and when it was halted seems to be willing to go it alone on adopting something in 40S&W.
Remember...the Air Forces' taking up of the AR15, and subsequently the M9, led the rest of the forces....(read Big Army) to finally follow their lead and the rest is history.
 
I shoot the 92 better than most pistols, find it very reliable and like the styling but see it as being bulky and not particularily durable compared to other big name service 9mms. I think it makes a good range gun or in applications where it doesn't have to stand up to constant abuse or the elements but there are many better choices for hard use.
 
The US military has decided to move away from 9MM and it won't be going toward 45ACP...
The M9's are ending their service life and won't be replaced with like.
The next series of pistol contracts will be for 'striker fired' models in 40S&W..
You heard it here first!;)
I have had a series of Beretta 92/96 models, but find that I shoot other pistols better...Sig, Glock, etc....
It all comes down to personal preference, but as noted, the US military won't be getting any more M9's, and the next big contract winner will be some model in 40S&W.

Please cite your source of information!
 
:D:bangHead::D:bangHead::D:bangHead:

Dear Colonel
After reading the most recent Sound Off, I felt compelled to write of my experiences with the Berretta pistol.
I am a Police Officer in a large Municipality in Canada and have been for 17 years. In 1993 all of the departments in my Province transitioned from revolvers to one of four pistols. The choices were the usual suspects, Berretta, Sig, S&W and Glock; all in DA and all in .40 cal. At the time there was a very strong push for 9mm. There was an equally strong effort to adopt a .45 cal weapon as well. A compromise was met and we ended up in the middle. Initially we were using ball ammunition that proved ineffective. However we managed to lobby for hollow point rounds and since then all has been well in the world of Police ballistics. You rarely read of suspects surviving Police shootings any more, it used to be a forgone conclusion with the old .38's.
My department adopted the Glock with little or no competition due to it's long standing with or SWAT people. I was a little dubious of this at first and my heart still wished for something with a juice-can bullet and made of steel, however, I kept an open mind. Anything would be better than my 1953 vintage S&W .38 with truncated cone target ammunition. It was not long before I became a strong believer, but I still wondered if there was something better out there.
I soon found I had the opportunity to answer this question when I was seconded to our Police College as a firearms instructor. I was required to become proficient in all four of the weapons that the students might someday carry. To accomplish this I had a range to myself and a key to the ammunition locker. I fired sufficient rounds through each weapon to become intimate with it. I spent three years teaching there and had a few observations.
Firstly, a weapon should be fit to the man, not the other way around. I had many a recruit who had difficulty holding the weapon issued to them. The Berretta was particularly bad. In fact I only had one recruit who was the correct size for this weapon. He was seven foot six and could pick up a basketball with two fingers. It was a hopeless task to try and get some of our smaller stature Officers to shoot well with the Berretta. A single action version would have only been slightly better, it was the width of the grip that caused the problem. The Sig and Smith had similar issues. I never found a person too large or too small to fire the Glock well.
Secondly, a weapon should be reliable. We had a store of weapons that were used by the recruits since they are not issued a weapon until they graduate. These handguns saw extreme use, firing in excess of one thousand rounds per recruit per course. This could amount to twenty thousand every three months. We wore them out with great abandon. With this type of use you can't help but notice trends. The Sig's trigger and recoil springs would break with annoying regularity. The Smith's rear sight would pop off which meant the hammer safety spring would launch. The Smith also had a weak magazine safety. When the fully loaded magazine was slammed home, as in a high stress event, the safety would break. Either of these things stopped the weapon from functioning. They were all replaced on a yearly basis, except the Glock's. They could stand in excess of one hundred and fifty thousand rounds with no sign of distress.
The Berretta was a story unto itself. On a daily basis we would lose a recoil lug. We would regularly have blown chambers (invariably blamed on bad ammunition, which surprisingly never happened to any of the others). Trigger springs broke often and we lost quite a few takedown lever studs and springs. This little beauty would fly out, never to be found, and on the next round fired, the takedown lever would fall down and the entire top-side would be launched down range. Imagine trying to build confidence in a new shooter when the top half of their weapon is sticking out of the ground like a grave marker? Another major weakness were the magazines. The spring is under such great compression and the butt plate is held on with a very weak detent and when combined it would routinely launch it's contents onto the ground. Much like the rookie holding the now defunct weapon did with his lunch during a high stress exercise.
I attended an MP5 instructor's course and was the only Glock amongst Smith's and Beretta's. One of the Berretta users regularly oiled his weapon using no less than three different types of lube for various areas. He had a stoppage on every live fire exercise and was getting frustrated when he asked the instructor why I never seemed to have to clear my weapon when all of the others were getting so much practice at it. The instructor answered in his mid western accent "Because, he has a Glock son."
Thirdly a weapon must be easily serviced in the field. All of these weapons, except of course the Glock, have far too many pieces to be field worthy. Have you ever tried to fit a Smith ejector rod assembly with cold hands? The Berretta is actually quite easy to strip, maybe too easy. In recent years the slide has been removed from Officer's handguns by suspects who have trained in this little trick. It does work and no you won't get a shot off before he has your slide. Another of the many annoyances of the Berretta are it's sharp edges. We kept a box of bandages handy for the unfortunates who were routinely bitten.
The only thing that Berretta has is the sales people. They swept down on our departments like a tide of locusts. They brought trinkets and expense accounts and hit the poor unsuspecting armorers hard. Many appear to have been bitten by the bug. Ten years later, many are regretting it. Their fancy high priced pistols are now in need of replacement.
The above issues are enough to negate the Berretta as a suitable side arm. The fact that the military are forced to use ball ammo is another, 9mm ball just doesn't work. The .45 is the obvious choice since it has a long-standing record. I don't, however, believe that the Colt platform is the way to go anymore. I may sound like a billboard for the Glock but I come by it honestly. The Glock 20 is cheaper, more reliable, easier to handle and tote, has more capacity and is infinitely more field serviceable than any other sidearm. I guess the main issue is to do away with the M9 altogether and worry about it's replacement later. I feel for the soldier in battle, I wouldn't have any confidence in an M9.
Sorry for the length of my letter, but I feel strongly about this issue. These charlatans have been foisting this poorly designed and overly complex pistol on us for years and it is costing lives. It's time for this to stop. When is the grunt going to be given the choice of which device he will defend himself and his country with? I, personally, would like to know who benefited from the US Army contract for the M9. I wonder if they can sleep at night?
Yours,
Dan Taylor
 
The Berretta is actually quite easy to strip, maybe too easy. In recent years the slide has been removed from Officer's handguns by suspects who have trained in this little trick. It does work and no you won't get a shot off before he has your slide.

While the letter seems to be prone to hyperbola, this is just nonsense. If a bad guy has his hands wrapped around your handgun, you are already in trouble, why worry about your gun being stripped?

I run a lot of guns to failure here to, and yes I find the Berettas more fragile than most, but I also don't find the Glocks more durable than many other big name guns.
 
I'll wade into this one here with my experience on the Beretta as well as my personal preference. Personally I am a Glock fan and currently own 3 of them, (2 10mm's and 1 .40 cal) as well as one Colt 1911 in .45acp.

In the mid 90's I was issued a Beretta 96D in .40 cal. The problems with the .40 cal Beretta's was that they could not take the constant pounding from the .40 cal round. In over a dozen years I have seen countless 96D's break on the range. Everything from minor things like broken springs to colossal failures.

On one course, two Beretta's went down on the same day. Both pistols, had to be replaced. Personally I have broken several 96D's, as well as having the usual problems with broken springs. One co-worker, who shot a lot, broke 4 96D's. Each one HAD to be replaced. Could not be fixed.

I have also seen on a number of courses, where the .40 cal Beretta's had problems once they were soaked and/or exposed to mud n muck. "Other" pistols, including the 96G's just seemed to chug along.

The 96G that I had for over 7 years was a different story. Depsite my love (Ok, some will say lust or incest) of Glocks, the 96G was a good, dependable, reliable, acurrate pistol. The only real weakness was the aftermarket practice mags they bought for us. When using real Beretta mags, there was no problems. As a rule, we had the springs and the locking blocks, replaced at certain intervals as preventative maintence. We had the 9mm's as they used the same ammo as the MP5. No mix up's at the range, and easier for inventory. While I am a believer in bigger rounds, (love the 10mm) there is lots of good hollow point 9mm out there that works.

When there was the steel Gong at Burke Mtn at the 200 M mark, I could walk my rounds onto the gong in the dry weather. That old 9mm had a decent trigger. I am currently carrying another .40 Beretta. The 9mm's are all gone now.

If I had a choice, I would opt for a 96G over the current Beretta's that we still use if our only choice was a Beretta. As I said, the 96G's are a good gun, just don't cheap out and use cheap after market mags.

As I said, personal opinion based on my experince's over the last 12 years or so with 4 different types of Beretta's. Feel free to disagree, vent, hack etc, at what I have said......
 
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The Berretta is actually quite easy to strip, maybe too easy. In recent years the slide has been removed from Officer's handguns by suspects who have trained in this little trick. It does work and no you won't get a shot off before he has your slide.
that only happened once - in a Jet Lee movie !!! :bangHead: I can't believe that somone would actually believe that it's possible...

btw if a BG would grab your gun wouldn't he try to take it away from you ;) instead of fidling around trying to find the button and turn the lever 90 degreees on the other side of the frame? :rolleyes:
 
While the letter seems to be prone to hyperbola, this is just nonsense. If a bad guy has his hands wrapped around your handgun, you are already in trouble, why worry about your gun being stripped?

I run a lot of guns to failure here to, and yes I find the Berettas more fragile than most, but I also don't find the Glocks more durable than many other big name guns.

Then what would be the most reliable gun that you have seen ?
 
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