Opinion On These Fired .223 Primers

Chizzy

Chizzy

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Hello:

I am wondering if I can get your opinions on these primers and cases.

7C01B356-A22C-4A55-AF4A-BABE3CB5311E-8533-000008CCE45D4AA9_zpsc8185557.jpg



I am shooting 60 grain Hornady V-Max bullets over a compressed load of 27.0 grains of Varget with Winchester Small Rifle Primers.

I am shooting them out of a Robinson Arms XCR.

Am I correct to say that these primers are "cratered"? I still have the distinct line between the case / primer pocket / primer; does this mean they are not "flattened"? That being said, if I stand the case up on a table in would "wobble" from the bulge of the primer.

I also see similar "crater" marks when using Hornady 223 REM 75 GR TAP FPD factory ammunition.

Is this anything to worry about? I am not going to load anymore with 27.0 grains as I am getting a tighter grouping with 26.5 grains of varget (although with similar looking primers).

Thank you for your time and input.

Have a nice day.

Regards,

Chizzy
 
try a CCI primer (they're usually cheaper too!) win primer cups are usually pretty soft.
I've had no issues with minor cratering, and your primers don't seem to be flattening out, but that cratering is a bit more then i'd like to see on my loads.

those loads are a bit warm, you are above max according to the sierra loading manual.
 
Cratered or flattened primers is only a sign that you reached the pressure required for that brand and lot of primers to crater or flatten. In the case of cratering, that can also depend on the rifle they are fired in. It isn't a sign of "excessive pressure" as what is and isn't excessive is based on the cartridge in question.
Federal primers for example with flatten below 50k psi but a 270 Win is still at a safe pressure at 65k psi.

As tactical870 said I have seen lots of factory 223 primers look like that after firing.
 
fred0000 said:
try a CCI primer (they're usually cheaper too!) win primer cups are usually pretty soft.
I've had no issues with minor cratering, and your primers don't seem to be flattening out, but that cratering is a bit more then i'd like to see on my loads.

those loads are a bit warm, you are above max according to the sierra loading manual.
Click to expand...

I got my load data from the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center (htt p://data.hodgdon.com); however, I did see people referencing lower max loadings at the following URLs: htt p://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-278067.html -


"My 6th Edition Hornady manual lists:
60 grain V-MAX .223 Rem
21.7 - 24.9 with Varget" :sok2

That seems like quite the variance in the max load of the Hodgdon site and the Hornady manual (assuming the Internet posting from THR is correct). I am not sure what the Sierra manual reads as max; however, I will be backing it off a bit.

Thank you!

Regards,

Chizzy
 
Trinimon said:
27gr? Man you went right to the top. That's getting pretty hot and Hodgdon's max recommended charge for your pills.
Click to expand...

Not to worry, I did start at the Min and worked my way up to Max in .5 gr. increments as I always do.

I think that I will go back to the 26.0 and go up by .1 to a max of 26.5 grains.

26.5 grains appeared the most promising from my 26.0, 26.5 and 27.0 samplings.

Thank you to everyone for their help and assistance. It is much appreciated.

Chizzy
 
I would say the primers shown are from quite a light load.
Cratering is usually caused by an over sized hole for the firing pin.
Loads shown as "maximum" in modern loading books should not be considered "hot." They are simply the load for normal loading of that cartridge, as shown by the firm that published the reloading chart in question.
Very often the loads shown in modern reloading charts, including Hodgdon's on line, as being "maximum," are in reality less than shown in old loading charts, and these loads were used extensively, in times past.
 
This is a common issue with the XCR and not your load. I could show you hundreds of primers like this from mine, most with starting or mid loads. You will get cratering with pretty much any load because of it. And watch out for primer piercing with hot loads and thinner walled/softer primers. Hornady 75 gr match ammo pierced 8/10 primers of the ten rounds I fired before picking up my brass and noticing it. My mini 14 does not pierce the primers of the same lot of ammo. A member of the XCR forum found that using a heavier hammer spring and lighter firing pin spring increased the dwell time that the hammer applies max pressure to the FP which prevented the cratering.
 
Below is a Remington 700 bolt face and the firing pin hole is beveled which causes the primer to flow into the bevel area. This was done to reduce manufacturing costs and in my opinion cheapens a once made quality rifle. Two things can cause the the OPs primer problem, the primer flowing into the firing pin hole due to excess tolerances or the bolt face is beveled at the firing pin.

boltface1_zps94fcd724.jpg


boltface2_zpsdf1f12bc.jpg


Now read the link below and feast your eyes on the photos.

Sig 551 very bad with primers

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=45&t=348449

Which also makes me want to ask did any of your primers look like this below, and if they did you could have high pressure gas erosion around the firing pin hole in the bolt face. This problem is caused by over resizing your cases and having too much head clearance, meaning excess cartridge headspace.

piercedprimer-2_zps2d386fad.jpg


piercedprimer-1_zps292b54b8.jpg


Quote from below, "If this type of gas leakage continues, the breech face can be eroded"

primersa-1_zps144ecb5f.jpg
 
XCR's are NOTORIOUS for being hard on primers. You can't reliably use primers as a visual indication of load power when shooting in a XCR. Some of the .223 XCR bolts have the firing pin hole chamfered as they were piercing primers. Mine is chamfered very crudely and looks like a very amateurish quick fix!

It's reliable though and shoots OK groups but the look of the primers really bugs me. I keep expecting something to start happening like the primers start popping out into the action or something! But it just keeps shooting so so far so good I guess. Any reloads I shoot through it I keep below max loads listed in my manuals. I find max loads don't usually give the best accuracy anyway.
 
Cratering is more of an indication of the firing pin strength and the firing pin hole in the breach face than pressure sign.

It looks like the edge of the primer is still round. If it was ironed flat to the side of the primer pocket, then I would think you have pressure.

Your primers look normal.

have you tried reloading? Are the pockets still tight?
 
Those primers look fine to me. Forget the "cratering" for a second and look at the outside edges of the primers - still nice and round from what I can see.

Don't forget that each firearm will leave a slightly different mark on the primer, and that different primers also are softer or harder. What you're seeing there seems to be a combination of soft primers and solid firing pin strikes.

Solid strikes are also common (desired) in military type firearms.
 
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