opinions on low/mid-range shorty AR-15s (M4s)..???

BP7

BP7

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looking at picking up an M4 (shorty AR-15) in the spring but i'm mostly into handguns so this one will be mainly for plinking and "CQC-pretend". not looking to spend a ton and nothing tacticooled either.

what are the options / opinions on the low/mid-range stuff, like the Norc ($700), the Remington R-15 ($1100), and whatever else is in the "not much beyond $1200 price range"?

the Norc seems good from the pics and online reading but based on my Norc 1911, i'd expect it to be reasonably good on the outside with poor fit-n-finish on the inside. is the CQ-a significantly better (than Norc's 1911s) as far as guts? is the Remington better made for the extra bucks? Ruger? Stag?

i don't mind getting separate upper & lower as long as putting it together is nothing more than those two pins (or even a wee bit more involved, but no trips to the gunsmith). and .223 Rem only, don't need any other caliber (even 5.56 isn't a necessary "can-do" since i'll buy 200-1000 rounds of .223 and then just reload on my own)
 
Just check out some of the recent threads on the Norincos that have been tricked out. I have no complaints about mine everything works and the gun looks great. Buy the gun for 700 and with the $400 difference go buy the CMMG .22 conversion kit and a thousand rounds of .22, and a bunch of .223. Unless you want a camo colored gun for the range your no further ahead with the R-15. They will both shoot straight and reliably. Dont know what your interest are but if you buy the R-15 and ever want to upgrade it you wont find the camo parts to match the rest of the gun. Get the M4 and it looks sweet right out of the box.
 
I own a R15, a Stag, and a Norc. If all were priced exactly the same, I'd buy a R15. Being that the norc is a couple hundred less, I would still buy an R15, as it is well worth it. The R15 has the simple advantage over the stag in that it is floated. The only case I'd buy a Stag is if I needed irons. Even then, I might be inclined to save a couple hun and get the norc, and fix whatever oddities the one I got had.
 
Then buy the Norinco and a case of a thousand .223 and still be cheaper then the R15 unless again you love that wicked camo. All things considered the AR is just a platform and all the parts are interchangeable. Do what your budget allows there are no bad choices on this one. Also the R-15 has no sights so expect a couple hundred more and if its CQC pretend is what you like then the M4 is the best choice as its much shorter than the others. Also I've heard that the R15 is made by Bushmaster for Remington and their quality control has not been what it used to be. I might be wrong but there is no harm in some research right?
 
on the Remington R-15, i actually don't like the camo but i can tolerate it. i've got a scope already that i can use and ya good point on the 22LR conversion kit for $250 or so - it will definitely be something i'd pick up right up front (and probably not bother buying any .223 ammo for a few weeks anyways just to get used to the handling of the rifle)

i do like the R-15's fluted floating barrel design, though i'd want to add a front post which is maybe $30? is it fairly easy to attach and line it up? i've never seen one in person though and did learn yesterday that the R-15 is basically a Bushmaster. i do have a new (bought 6 months ago for PPC slug gun matches) Rem 870 Tact shotgun that i love so if the R-15 would have similar build, i'd be quite happy with it.

i did once see the Norc M4 in person but didn't pay too much attention to it since at the time the AR-15 platform wasn't something i was interested in. it looked ok, didn't seem like a ####ty paint job, but no idea on the guts or other stuff. i'm noticing that a search indicates people are having badly placed front sights, and something about the charging handle not functioning totally to spec? i'd rather spend time shooting (either .223 or 22LR) and not tinkering to fix / replace little silly things. but if it works cleanly right out of the box and is reliable, then i'm not concerned about it being MIC. i don't care if it's made in Australia or the moon, as long as it works RIGHT.

i do like what i read about the Stag but at 2x the cost of a Norc for just recreational CQC-pretend shooting it may be a stretch. unless it really is 2x better in terms of build quality over the Norc - good clean smooth trigger, well made parts, no proprietary or off-spec parts? whichever one i end up with i won't be spending any coin on extras to mod it or tweak it. i like to keep my guns as stock as possible (other than change my 870's stock from the basic to the ShurShot thumbhole type).

as far as range, i'd say most of it is gonna be at 25m and 50m, with the occasional shots out to 100m or possibly 300m. i typically shoot at a 25m pistol range that will allow the .223, but there's also a 900m rifle range within the same facility in case i want to try something longer (Connaught in Ottawa). at EOHC i can shoot out to 100/200/300m.
 
anyone in the Ottawa area have a Norc M4, a Stag, and possibly a Remington R-15 that i could look at in person? just indoors at your place, not looking to load any ammo into it and shoot it but only see / feel each first-hand to help make my decision. PM me if you'd be ok with a visitor for 15-30mins!
 
The Stag vs the R15, the Stag will have a chrome lined barrel, a threaded muzzle, milspec collapsable stock, choice of 1/7 or 1/9, choice of 16 or 20" bbls (24" 1/8 also available), iron sights included, and won't be camoflage. A freefloat tube can had for ~$110. We can and do shave front sights down by customer request. There may be more, but briefly, that's probably the main bits.

VS the Norc, the Stag Arms will have known materials (forged 7075-T6 aluminum receivers vs cast mystery aluminum - 6061, maybe?), much better tolerances (it was miking the Norcs + the returns and some fairly wild build flaws that stopped our selling them), better fit, better appearance, better build quality, current milspec anodizing, MUCH MUCH better internals, and, important for me anyway, pride of ownership. Oh yeah, and a lifetime warranty. I'm happy for anyone who is happy with theirs, seriously. But you do get what you pay for.

The Stag is only lower priced because 1: they are the manufacturer, 2: we want more people to afford them, and prefer to work on higher volume and lower margins, rather than milking customers for whatever we can take them for. That means Value.

People would be mistaken if they thought that higher price automatically equals higher quality, particularly in the CDN AR15 market (particularly if they based their opinions around a completely flawed and inaccurate 'chart').

The current 1/7 4150 barreled Stag Arms 1R-SE is part for part, spec for spec, the same as a Colt 6920 (I say 1R because it has the A3 carry handle, the 2R is the same rifle with a flip rear sight instead). The 6920 would in all likelyhood, contain parts cut on the same machines, by the same people, in the same factory, but with perhaps more attention/time to the hand finishing of consumer guns vs potential build-to-dollar potential govt contract parts.

Ask Colt if CMT/Stag parts are good. They've been using CMT to cut their parts for over 35 years, including M4/M16 small and large components, M203s, 1911 frames and more. Frankly, if it were not for Colt, CMT never would have become what they are today, which is a supplier for perhaps 70% of US manufactured AR15 parts. CMT is certified by the US Dept of Defence as a M16/M4 Program Sub-Contractor meaning the primary contractor, Colt, can and do use CMT sub-contracted parts in government contract rifles. CMT is also DOD certified for M16->M4 fleet conversions, and more.

Anything else, don't hesitate to ask.

Best regards,
DT
 
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how does Rock River fit into the comparo? they're priced at the same level as Stag or maybe 300 less for some models (which makes them in-line with the Rem R-15). i quickly looked at the AE site and ya the Stag 2R model is probably most what i'd be looking at. i hate excessive rails (thankfully) so i'd only look at stuff that has the one main rail to mount a scope (and no longer than that).
 
Shooter1of38 said:
Dangertree, do you have the 1R in stock? Web store does not show that model.
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Yes. Well, we're getting low on current stock, but have new carry handles left over from a police order. The 2R minus the BUIS (currently Troy) and + the A3 Carry Handle is a 1R, and we can do that. I'd like to offer the rifles as a plain 16", no rear sight, and have the customer choose the rear sight desired, but as Stag's CDN Distributor, we stock the models as offered.

If you have any other requests, or don't see exactly what you want on the site, we are always available by phone (and email) to answer any questions, and welcome all inquiries.

Best regards,
DT
 
BP7 said:
though i'd want to add a front post which is maybe $30?

i'd rather spend time shooting (either .223 or 22LR) and not tinkering to fix / replace little silly things.
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Since it sounds like you want to shoot, not d1ck around with the rifle, and you want irons, what you want is a Stag. pick out the specific model, get it and a crate of ammo, and prepare to buy another soon. ;)
 
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