Opinions on makes please....

[galamb]

Thanks for the tip on the BLR in 270 WSM - I don't want a "kicker".

And regarding the Tikka. Yes, I have friends who own them - very nice rifles - hold well, quality looks good and they absolutely swear by them.

For me, because I'm cutting out the "retailer" I can just get more rifle for the money if I stick with US made arms (at least if the company is headquartered in the US) than outside of North America (need a NAFTA gun). While the price of a Howa or Tikka may be comparable to Browings/Rems/Wby's "on the shelf", it's only because the margin is razor thin on the "outside of N.A." guns to keep them somewhat competitive in price.

Howa built a good chunk of my Wby but if I had of chosen the "comparable" Howa model it would have run me 125 bucks more "for essentially the same features". Same kinda deal with the Tikka. I can get a wood stocked Browning X-bolt or Rem 700 CDL Walnut for a little more than 100 bucks less and the Wby Sporter Walnut for more than $125 less than a "synthetic" Tikka, which is $125 less than the T3 Walnut.

So the Tikka or Howa or a few others would have to be "way more gun" for me to even consider them. I just don't see a Walnut T3 being 300 bucks worth of "more rifle" than a Walnut Wby VG2, which is the price difference "for me".

 

[guntech]

Interesting comments on quality control...

A lot on my customers use the 700 as a basis on which to built a very accurate rifle. I have worked on 700's for about 45 years. In the last 10 years or so I expanded the accuracy work I do and it includes truing 700 actions.

I have found not that much difference in the quality inside the 700 between old actions and new ones... I have inspected both new and old actions that were actually quite true, and the same results for being not so true. Inconsistencies which are common to all mass produced firearms, regardless of make. I think the older ones generally were finished nicer although if you stay away from the SPS versions the finishes aren't bad.

Old or new a few bolt handle problems do show up... usually as soon as the rifle is used or some when a hot load has locked the bolt up and hammering on the bolt handle pops it off. The problem if one comes off without hammering on it is because at the factory the silver solder joint failed to bond properly and without full strength. Not that many get out, but a few do. Annoying as hell if it happens to you.

I have seen a few extractors that when set at the factory were set too shallow and require a little tweaking. I have seen more extractor problems with other makes of rifles. All minor problems.

I have seen far more actions with absolutely nothing wrong with them. Way more...

Triggers - I love them in spite of the bad mouthing and changes. Give me one of the old ones any day... The only reason I would replace a 700 trigger with a different make is if I wanted a very light trigger weight... those 2 to 4 ounces ones... the newer triggers I have re worked and adjusted just fine to light and crisp and safe.

The triggers I have seen in my shop that were failing, all were due to lack of simple maintenance or incorrectly adjusted after they left the factory. They had not been inspected or cleaned for many years and old dried up solvent/oil/dirt prevented the trigger return spring to function correctly when the rifle sat with the bolt closed in the fired position... when you first opened the bolt and cycled the action the spring would fail to return the sear to the proper position quickly enough and the sear would fail to hold the firing pin cocked. Often after cycling a few times it would 'limber' up and function. One customer said it had been doing that for a few years and was really ticked off with Remington and worried about the "bad" trigger. I took it apart while he watched and showed him why it failed... he then realized it wasn't Remington's fault as he had done nothing but shoot the rifle for 15 years... no maintenance at all.

I have seen more trigger/safety problems with other makes of rifles. All minor problems.

Anyone experiencing problems with triggers on any make of rifle should stop using the rifle and get it inspected... it seems everyone is a gunsmith when it comes to their rifle. However there are many guys out there who are fully aware of how the 700 trigger works and are fully capable of working on them.

Just posted this for information... no rants required.

 

[Eagleye]

I have seen a couple of bolt handles come off 700s in my lifetime. One was on the second shot fired with factory ammo.
When looking at the Silver Soldering, it was easy to see why.

The second one failed after several solid hits with a 2x4. A very warm handload was the culprit here.

I have not had one fail personally, and have owned close to 100 M700 rifles in my lifetime. I have a couple of 700 rifles that are on their 3rd barrel,
and have not yet had to replace the extractor on either one.
I did replace one extractor on a magnum faced bolt, but it was the victim of a 'smith who touched it with a dremel or some such tool.

What Dennis said about true actions is borne out by the 721 Action I sent to him to have rebarrelled to a new chambering. It was threaded quite a bit off straight, and had to be fixed.
It was originally a 30-06, and never did shoot worth crap. In the new chambering, I shoot it at 1000 yards, and have shot groups as small as 6" with it there.

QC is an ethereal thing, and Remington is far from the only company to suffer from issues.

A number of owners rave about the Tikka T3. I have owned a couple, and have not felt as enamored with them.
Compare a T3 to a M55, 65, 595, etc.
The T3 feels like a cheap imitation Tikka compared to the older models.

I suspect the Vanguard is somewhat subsidized by Weatherby, but it is pretty solid value for dollar spent, IMHO.

There are several very good choices out there, but the O.P. needs to physically handle the options, and then decide.

Regards, Dave.

 

[tinbird]

Vanguards are Howa actions are they not?
Remington of olden days were things of beauty, I had a 7mm Express ADL that I foolishly traded off back in the 80's. but with the quality control issues that company has had in recent years, due mainly to cut backs I'm assuming and bean counters intervening, I have no faith in them anymore. Look what they did to Marlin, another fine firearm that was reduced to POS status for a period of time and struggling to regain some.
One good thing, as I've said in the past about Lemontons, they keep the good people at Gravel Agency employed LOL.
Of course, regardless of the safety factor designed into any firearm system, it has to reliably chamber the round to go bang which is a crap shoot with Lemonton.
Perhaps these issues have all been cleared up but America's oldest firearm company allowed itself to become a second class rating to save dollars, not offer a better/improved product.
For these reasons I would just avoid dealing with the potential problems that may occur from the 700, unless you're a gunsmith and have the ability, know-how and equipment to resolve any potential issues or correct poor QC.

I personally would choose Savage, but that's just me, many out there state that they aren't as pretty as the other brands, and that's okay, everyone to their opinion.
Savage rifles seem take quite a few first place trophies for stock rifles shooting long range.I have and shoot a few and quite like them.
Any of the others you have suggested are good, decent firearms.
Felt recoil is as much a product of how the firearm fits the individual and this is one of the reasons people will recommend a person test fire whenever possible. A rifle that fits you will have less felt recoil that an ill fitting one.
Hope this helps,
Tb

 

[stovepipe699]

I have a remington 700 sps SS in 308. The only issue I ever had with it is the trigger being heavy. I purchased a factory trigger set up by Guntech, I think i had him set it at 3.5 lbs, and it's been great. I'd buy another remington.

 

[The Kurgan]

I can vouch for guntech's expertise and opinion on just about anything... he helped build one of the finest hunting rifles I've have ever owned. A real heirloom piece!
Ironically, it was built on a small-ring 98 Mauser action... not a Rem 700 action . That man has been building rifles for nearly half a century... respect bro.

Just as an aside, Eagleye, I happen to think the Tikka T3's are the best modern-made bolt-action rifles on the planet. Yes, there are more expensive rifles out there, and yes the T3's could use a bolt shroud update, but they are truly excellent performers and deadly accurate. I have another one on order to keep my Battue company... stainless Superlite in 30-06. Plastic fantastic.

My comments are not meant to inflame or annoy or fuel any form of hatred. We are all entitled to our opinions, but my experience has gravitated me towards T3's.