Opinions please; short AR optic

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Noltz

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My first AR should be in the mail shortly, and I am on the hunt for something to put on top. I've read tons of reviews and love the ACOG but who doesn't. I'm using it on the Action and 50 yard ranges. 11" barrel, 223, flat top. Budget is around the $300 mark. Not a fan of tall risers for red dots so I'd rather avoid those. Low mounted scopes, armoured reflex sights, or ACOG clones... what have you tried and what did or didn't work for you?

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I'd spend the extra 100 bucks and wait for a deal on a used aimpoint. Buying cheap stuff just ends up being replaced by better stuff, especially optics.
You could buy a cheapy for 250, and then spend 450 on a used Aimpoint, and then sell your cheapy for the 100 bucks it's worth.
Or you could just pony up an extra 100-200 and be set for life.
 
I really dislike the aesthetics of high mounted red dots, especially Aimpoints. I have to be truthful and say I won't 'get used to it', even if they work. I do appreciate the suggestion though. Right now I'm leaning towards a new Bushnell AR Optics 1x32 from Sail at $209. The budget allows for more and is moderately flexible. If there's something that fits my bill & budget I'd like to hear about it. The ACOG patent ran out in 2008 but I don't know if anyone has put out a good copy without the expensive tritium illumination. Since we can't shoot at night anyway, there's not much point.
 
Aesthetics? Meh.

Functionality = Aimpoint. Alternately, you could see if the new Trijicon MRO tickles your fancy......but it's a little spendy.

.......or call L3 - I hear they have a large inventory of EOTechs right now.:d
 
I know esthetics is in the eye of the beholder but IMO, a scope or an ACOG sight makes a 11" AR look really top heavy. If your stated purpose is Action and 50yd distance shooting, nothing beats the elegance of a T-1 Micro...or a PRO ( cheaper!)
 
I've got 3 uppers so I have to spread my $$ out wisely.

My personal shooter has an ACOG TA31F and it's my favourite optic of all time, even for SR and CQB.

My client shooter and my wife's upper have Vortex SPARC2's on them since they are meant for having fun inside 50m. Life is good! :)

Buy what works for your budget, your game, your LCV (looks cool value), your mates, your own opinion after research, and finally your own self esteem.... it's gotta feel great to shoot and then compete with. ;)

Cheers,

Barney
 
Have you ever shot an AR15 style rifle before?

I ask, because of your comments regarding the aesthetics of what you refer to as "tall risers" for red dots. There is a reason for them. It is because of the inline stock of the AR15. If you attempt to mount any type of sight with a low or flush mount, you will not be able to get your eye behind the sight, as the stock will get in the way.

Spend as much as your budget will allow. You will not be able to attach BUIS on your carbine in its current configuration, so if your optic goes down, although it probably won't ever be a life of death issue for you, it will end your days shooting at best, and could ruin a course that you may have paid good money to attend.

There are two general heights for sights on AR15s. They are generally classed according to where they sit in relation to the iron sights, or BUIS. These are absolute co-witness, the lower of the two options, and lower 1/3rd, which sit slightly higher.

Regards.

Mark
 
I have shot a few different configuration AR's. One was scoped with a 3-9x for distance. The others had flip up irons and a reflex. The reflex sat very low.

Slightly off topic: can you explain co-witness in a little more depth? Am I correct in guessing that to co-witness is to be able to see the front iron through you optic and 1)Absolute; everything lines up or 2) Lower 1/3 you can view down the rear iron, through a dead optic, and line up your front sight to take the shot?

I see what you're saying with the tall risers being required. Even the ACOG and Bushnell sits quite high. I'd like to have BUIS on it, will require a different handguard... it's a 60 minuite drive each way to get there. It'd suck to have to pack it in on account of a dead LED.
 
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Pretty much correct.

The two heights are based off their relationship with the iron sights, either fixed or flip up. The original carry handle/fixed front sight set the original sight height, so even when one or both are replaced with other options, they are, or should be the same height.

Absolute co-witness means that the center of the optic is generally lined up with the front and rear sights, in such a way that when looking through the iron sights, you will be looking through the center of the optic. Having said that, it doesn't necessarily mean that the dot will line up exactly with the iron sights, as depending on the sight, and the user, there may be a slight difference. It does mean that your cheek weld is always the same, regardless of whether you use the optic or irons, however, fixed iron sights will obscure more of your view when using the optic, which lead to the lower 1/3 height becoming popular.

Lower 1/3 means that the optic is raised up a little more than absolute co-witness, so that when using the iron sights, you are effectively looking through the lower 1/3 of the optic. This option gives the user the ability to see over usually fixed iron sights, so that the sight picture when using the optic is not as obstructed by the irons. It means, however, that your cheek weld will change slightly when switching between the optic and iron sights. If you run flip up iron sights, it does not really serve any real purpose if you always run the iron sights in the down position unless needed, although some people prefer it for comfort.

Bear in mind, that this only really applies to optics where you are able to see the front sight through the optic, which is not always the case, even with some 1x optics. When using optics that do not allow the use of iron sights without removing the optic first, then you could effectively use whatever height you want, but something approaching absolute co-witness is probably best from a comfort/usability standpoint.

Some sights may appear to sit lower than others, even when at the above heights, due to the diameter of the optic, so for example, an Aimpoint PRO at absolute co-witness will appear to sit lower when compared with an Aimpoint T2, because the optic is larger. If you are concerned about the look, I would probably recommend that as an option. It is a little higher than your current budget, but they can be found used for a reasonable price. Some SMEs in the US are now beginning to run Aimpoints without BUIS, as the optics have proven to be reliable enough to do so, so that would also be a plus until you are able to change out the handguard, and buy irons.

Regards.

Mark
 
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Thanks for explaining that out fully. I did do a quick Google search on it after to get a better idea and your post confirmed what I thought. There seems to be a lot of love for the Aimpoints. I'll have to keep my eyes open at the firing line to see if anyone is running one and how it feels to me. In the meanwhile I did find a Bushnell on the EE that might fit the bill. We'll see when it, and the rifle, arrive.

Thanks again,
 
Yep I saw that. I'm going to keep my eyes open on the firing line for one and ask if I can have a peek through it. Obviously with all the supporters these things DO work. It's just not what I pictured on my range toy. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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