Don't overlook airsoft. If you get a 1911 you can get an airsoft 1911 (Tokyo marui or KJ Works) gas blowback 1911. It will fit your holster and mag pouches. If you go cz (KJ Works) makes a cz 75 and Duty one. They are replicas. Operate the same as the real deal. Great for training In your basement or garage. I'd say backyard too but you might get swat showing up. I practice for just $0.02 cents a shot.
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- Thread starter AbdullahD
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99.9% of the problems with 1911's come from the folks messing around with changing this or that in them. If you can avoid the temptation to "improve" them they'll shoot great and be reliable.
Most new shooters manage to develop a flinch. And starting out with a .45 1911 is one good way to make sure you get a good one. There's lots of options for banishing this flinch issue. Dry firing is one that is tossed out regularly. But it's easy to not flinch when you KNOW it won't go BANG! I'm a fan of the good ol' .22 as a training gun for beating down flinch issues. And best of all they are great guns for cheap trigger time even with today's price issues on rimfire ammo.
So if your first handgun isn't a .22 it should jolly well be your second.
I'm a huge CZ fan to my vote is a 9mm CZ in any of the models that is all metal. And of the lot there's many reasons why the Shadow is so popular.
Follow that with a nice .22 semi auto to use for kicking the flinch you'll likely get. Then a 1911 in .45acp. Then you need to take a step to the side with a revolver or two. And THAT would be a nicely rounded collection..... OK, maybe room for a modern piece of plastic in there too....
Most new shooters manage to develop a flinch. And starting out with a .45 1911 is one good way to make sure you get a good one. There's lots of options for banishing this flinch issue. Dry firing is one that is tossed out regularly. But it's easy to not flinch when you KNOW it won't go BANG! I'm a fan of the good ol' .22 as a training gun for beating down flinch issues. And best of all they are great guns for cheap trigger time even with today's price issues on rimfire ammo.
So if your first handgun isn't a .22 it should jolly well be your second.
I'm a huge CZ fan to my vote is a 9mm CZ in any of the models that is all metal. And of the lot there's many reasons why the Shadow is so popular.
Follow that with a nice .22 semi auto to use for kicking the flinch you'll likely get. Then a 1911 in .45acp. Then you need to take a step to the side with a revolver or two. And THAT would be a nicely rounded collection..... OK, maybe room for a modern piece of plastic in there too....
If you can't shoot something before buying it, then I'd say get a few economy models to see what you like. SAM 1911, Girsan Beretta, Norc Sig, etc..
You'll find out what you like, and you won't lose much on selling what you don't.
Then you can buy something with more curb appeal.
You'll find out what you like, and you won't lose much on selling what you don't.
Then you can buy something with more curb appeal.
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Which ever way you choose to go about I'm sure will be fine, But there will always be another one you kinda got your eye on aswel.
Remember mags, holsters, accessories & ammo. Some are more difficult to ubtane than others.
Remember mags, holsters, accessories & ammo. Some are more difficult to ubtane than others.
I am just keeping this thread open so i dont spam up the forums.
Another question. Is their an industry testing group/company/w.h.y that i can look at torture tests on these guns?
Ive seen nothing but good reviews on the Girsan products and im wondering how it stacks up vs the real thing. I know its a long shot but if an outfit does standardized torture testing that would be nice.
From my knowledge Norinco are low end clones and girsan are high end.... but the price difference isnt even one tank of gas... so if Girsan is a literal clone in quality too then why not? If something is just underpriced because its a different name thats fine, but... if the quality isnt there ill avoid it. If I get a girsan thats as good as the 92fs for half the price then i can get something else too.
sorry i have an schedule purchase I have my SKS and gunsite scout for respective hunting qualities. now i need a nice handgun, then .22lr, then a rifle and handgun for the wife and then... who knows. so if i get the same thing for 50% off i can proceed quicker.
Another question. Is their an industry testing group/company/w.h.y that i can look at torture tests on these guns?
Ive seen nothing but good reviews on the Girsan products and im wondering how it stacks up vs the real thing. I know its a long shot but if an outfit does standardized torture testing that would be nice.
From my knowledge Norinco are low end clones and girsan are high end.... but the price difference isnt even one tank of gas... so if Girsan is a literal clone in quality too then why not? If something is just underpriced because its a different name thats fine, but... if the quality isnt there ill avoid it. If I get a girsan thats as good as the 92fs for half the price then i can get something else too.
sorry i have an schedule purchase I have my SKS and gunsite scout for respective hunting qualities. now i need a nice handgun, then .22lr, then a rifle and handgun for the wife and then... who knows. so if i get the same thing for 50% off i can proceed quicker.
Used Beretta 92FS is around $600 (no tax) on the EE. I haven't tried the Girsan but opted for a used 92FS. Very happy so far. I know a lot of guys are getting the Girsan, but buy what you want.
Ya i got distracted on the Girsan website with there gold highlighted guns or engraved guns..
so can someone special order in too a specific handgun
but i have some time. beretta is a safe bet for sure, but if girsan is good why not eh?
so can someone special order in too a specific handgun
but i have some time. beretta is a safe bet for sure, but if girsan is good why not eh?If you like the Beretta 92FS style, it seems to fit your hand well and you are confident in the quality of Girsan products, then go for it.
If for some reason you don't like it, you can try something different later. If you're hoping to make the perfect choice, well... good luck
with that, as I don't honestly believe there is one. There are a lot of products out there and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
If you don't already, you should take advantage of all the YOUTUBE reviews - God knows there's enough of them - which will allow you to
to watch most of your potential candidates in action. If there is an indoor range near by, you might ask them if they rent guns for range use.
Which would be the best way for you to evaluate some of your choices. Anyway good luck with your search.
If for some reason you don't like it, you can try something different later. If you're hoping to make the perfect choice, well... good luck
with that, as I don't honestly believe there is one. There are a lot of products out there and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
If you don't already, you should take advantage of all the YOUTUBE reviews - God knows there's enough of them - which will allow you to
to watch most of your potential candidates in action. If there is an indoor range near by, you might ask them if they rent guns for range use.
Which would be the best way for you to evaluate some of your choices. Anyway good luck with your search.
Cz sp01 shadow is one of the nicest factory guns you can buy. Fantastic trigger, all steel construction, accurate and reliable. It will be a pleasure to shoot as long as you own it. I own several norcs and while they are fun cant compare to the cz.
Agree CZ's are nice pistols. Wife shoots a CZ75B. Pick a model with good sights like a Combat, Shadow etc.. Standard CZ fixed sights suck, to small, they work but you spend to much time trying to get a good sight picture..
You really need to get around to a few shops and hold some of these guns. While I like the Beretta 92 it's a big fat gun that really needs large hands to hold well.
In competition that I like I found that the slide mounted safety/decocker had to be handled carefully or I would end up switching it to the safe position. This ran counter to what I do with my CZ's and 1911 guns and in time I found I wasn't using it much. So I sold it to a buddy that is very happy with it for just target shooting.
I've got large hands, just to set the stage. And I'm lucky enough to have a rental range near me when I was looking at getting into shooting. I rented and shot about a dozen guns. I quickly found that I preferred the trigger feel of hammer fired guns to striker fired. And that I liked the heft of the all steel guns over the polymer guns. Out of that mix the two top options for me were the Beretta 92fs and the IWI Jericho. Then some whiz-bang let me try their CZ Shadow that had been tuned for IPSC......... I've now got two CZ's for 9mm and one Norinco 29 1911 in 9mm. The Norc came out of the box with a fitting issue that I'm going to fix and once it's done it'll be a superb gun. But if I had to give up all but one semi auto in any caliber the last one in my safe would be the CZ Shadow that I first bought. And it would be sitting beside the S&W Model 19 if I had to trim down to one last revolver as well.
In competition that I like I found that the slide mounted safety/decocker had to be handled carefully or I would end up switching it to the safe position. This ran counter to what I do with my CZ's and 1911 guns and in time I found I wasn't using it much. So I sold it to a buddy that is very happy with it for just target shooting.
I've got large hands, just to set the stage. And I'm lucky enough to have a rental range near me when I was looking at getting into shooting. I rented and shot about a dozen guns. I quickly found that I preferred the trigger feel of hammer fired guns to striker fired. And that I liked the heft of the all steel guns over the polymer guns. Out of that mix the two top options for me were the Beretta 92fs and the IWI Jericho. Then some whiz-bang let me try their CZ Shadow that had been tuned for IPSC......... I've now got two CZ's for 9mm and one Norinco 29 1911 in 9mm. The Norc came out of the box with a fitting issue that I'm going to fix and once it's done it'll be a superb gun. But if I had to give up all but one semi auto in any caliber the last one in my safe would be the CZ Shadow that I first bought. And it would be sitting beside the S&W Model 19 if I had to trim down to one last revolver as well.
To answer this question, you need to set you goal(target shooting, competition, collection to keep and/or buy/play/sell) and then most importantly your budget.
when I started, I intend to shoot some of the most popular brands I like in the popular calibers, also start with just target shooting only first. so, I got mp40(with 9mm barrel)/glock/1911/p226. then with competition in mind(if I can ever get there), CZ75 shadow/shadowline is on my list. Then revolver is must-have for me. so S&W R8/TRR8/627PC/629 are on the list as well. And I don't want to sell my stuff, so I opted out Norinco because the workmanship(the cosmetic tool marks and the finish). If you just need a shooter, Norinco is a great option. I think you get the idea.
when I started, I intend to shoot some of the most popular brands I like in the popular calibers, also start with just target shooting only first. so, I got mp40(with 9mm barrel)/glock/1911/p226. then with competition in mind(if I can ever get there), CZ75 shadow/shadowline is on my list. Then revolver is must-have for me. so S&W R8/TRR8/627PC/629 are on the list as well. And I don't want to sell my stuff, so I opted out Norinco because the workmanship(the cosmetic tool marks and the finish). If you just need a shooter, Norinco is a great option. I think you get the idea.
My budget is realistically 700-1500. Were moving to Kamloops August 1st inshallah. Were anticipating having $2,000 left over from the move, wife wants a couple small things then the rest is for me.
I have held quite a few different ones now, but not extensively. The guys at grouse river know me by first name pretty much lol (the saved me $200 on my Ruger rifle)
To be honest I love the look of two tone or SS/Nickel/chrome handguns and looks is a big driver for me. Second is something I can have fun with and can grow into if i do decide to do competition, 3rd is has to last for a long long time. i buy things and abuse them, but i rarely sell. I also dont mind the Idea of upgrading the gun, i.e buy a $500 girsan and then spend another $500 and make it outperform the $1,000 Beretta.
but i also like having something that will be good to go out the box too that i dont need to screw with.
Im leaning towards girsan right now cause i literally cant find any substantiated complaints against them. So I can buy the beretta knock of in 9mm and get a 1911 in .45 acp.
then that will lead into the 4th reason for buying
Girsan being a new outfit is establishing its reputation and since they seem to be top notch gun makers i can realistically expect the value to rise as they get established and raise prices accordingly. unlike beretta sig etc who tend to take a hit on resale (this one is a investment gamble i know hence its not super important.)
sorry crappy day at work, found a dead guy in a car had to give statements to the police and the cars been down 3 hours so if i makw no sense blame me.
I have held quite a few different ones now, but not extensively. The guys at grouse river know me by first name pretty much lol (the saved me $200 on my Ruger rifle)
To be honest I love the look of two tone or SS/Nickel/chrome handguns and looks is a big driver for me. Second is something I can have fun with and can grow into if i do decide to do competition, 3rd is has to last for a long long time. i buy things and abuse them, but i rarely sell. I also dont mind the Idea of upgrading the gun, i.e buy a $500 girsan and then spend another $500 and make it outperform the $1,000 Beretta.
but i also like having something that will be good to go out the box too that i dont need to screw with.
Im leaning towards girsan right now cause i literally cant find any substantiated complaints against them. So I can buy the beretta knock of in 9mm and get a 1911 in .45 acp.
then that will lead into the 4th reason for buying
Girsan being a new outfit is establishing its reputation and since they seem to be top notch gun makers i can realistically expect the value to rise as they get established and raise prices accordingly. unlike beretta sig etc who tend to take a hit on resale (this one is a investment gamble i know hence its not super important.)
sorry crappy day at work, found a dead guy in a car had to give statements to the police and the cars been down 3 hours so if i makw no sense blame me.
sorry about the dead guy and that you have to be the one found him/her.
back to the topic, we have all been there. based on you said, it seems we were similar at where to start, with the exception that I don't see these guns as investment. In fact, unless you are buying them to collect, like python etc, you will lose money one way or the other on the shooter guns, unless you got an extremely good deal for whatever reasons, either on sale or, like right now the currency fluctuates a lot. So, don't worry about that too much.
I don't have experience with Girsan, so do your research and go for it if you like it.
One thing to considered though, anything new would be harder to find accessories and after market parts, or with a more expensive price tag. With popular brands like S&W, Glock and general 1911s, it's very easy or relatively cheap to get those which is kind of important. this is one of the reasons lots of people, myself included, started with a range kit that gives you everything you need. just an example, in my city, Girsan 9mm is around $450 with 2 mags only. MP40/9mm range kit is $650(on sale will be between $550-600 now, saw $500 before the CAD went into toilet), but it comes with 1 extra mag($40 for MP9, $44 for MP40), mag loader($40), holster and mag pouch($50?) and different size of grips(not available for Girsan I think). So, the range kit from S&W is actually better value than Giran, all considered. and with MP40, you get a conversion barrel with 2 mags for $300 extra. you get two guns average @ around $450 each. So... how's that for a math?
back to the topic, we have all been there. based on you said, it seems we were similar at where to start, with the exception that I don't see these guns as investment. In fact, unless you are buying them to collect, like python etc, you will lose money one way or the other on the shooter guns, unless you got an extremely good deal for whatever reasons, either on sale or, like right now the currency fluctuates a lot. So, don't worry about that too much.
I don't have experience with Girsan, so do your research and go for it if you like it.
One thing to considered though, anything new would be harder to find accessories and after market parts, or with a more expensive price tag. With popular brands like S&W, Glock and general 1911s, it's very easy or relatively cheap to get those which is kind of important. this is one of the reasons lots of people, myself included, started with a range kit that gives you everything you need. just an example, in my city, Girsan 9mm is around $450 with 2 mags only. MP40/9mm range kit is $650(on sale will be between $550-600 now, saw $500 before the CAD went into toilet), but it comes with 1 extra mag($40 for MP9, $44 for MP40), mag loader($40), holster and mag pouch($50?) and different size of grips(not available for Girsan I think). So, the range kit from S&W is actually better value than Giran, all considered. and with MP40, you get a conversion barrel with 2 mags for $300 extra. you get two guns average @ around $450 each. So... how's that for a math?
Just went to grouse river again... cause well its been a while.
92fs is to big
sr1911 and sw1911 fit perfect but im left handed so working safeties would be annoying
glock fit good to nice and since its more ambidextrous its pulling out top.
my buddy has a sp01 here in kelowna but is kinda squirrely to nail down for range time (if you see this lets go) but i will try to get my greasy hands on that one again.
so now its CZ SP01 vs Glock 22 gen IV. if the G34 is same size i may get that vs the sp01 not 22
92fs is to big
sr1911 and sw1911 fit perfect but im left handed so working safeties would be annoying
glock fit good to nice and since its more ambidextrous its pulling out top.
my buddy has a sp01 here in kelowna but is kinda squirrely to nail down for range time (if you see this lets go) but i will try to get my greasy hands on that one again.
so now its CZ SP01 vs Glock 22 gen IV. if the G34 is same size i may get that vs the sp01 not 22
If you like 1911, there are models with ambitious safety and mag release I think. I got my SR1911 here used as well and love it so much.
http://shopruger.com/SR1911-Ambi-Safety-Stainless/productinfo/12400/
For G22, there is also the 9mm conversion barrel option. Then since it's more popular, you can find good deal used with extra goodies to begin with. I got my g22 with 5 mags from a CGNer here. Great shooter and great value. waiting to buy a 9mm barrel for it as well. Good start point for punching paper. Oh, the incoming pmag is so cheap as well.
At last, as beginner, I always thought it's better to start with a rougher gun than a nicer one like CZ because you could get spoiled on the fundamentals, especially trigger control in this case.
http://shopruger.com/SR1911-Ambi-Safety-Stainless/productinfo/12400/
For G22, there is also the 9mm conversion barrel option. Then since it's more popular, you can find good deal used with extra goodies to begin with. I got my g22 with 5 mags from a CGNer here. Great shooter and great value. waiting to buy a 9mm barrel for it as well. Good start point for punching paper. Oh, the incoming pmag is so cheap as well.
At last, as beginner, I always thought it's better to start with a rougher gun than a nicer one like CZ because you could get spoiled on the fundamentals, especially trigger control in this case.
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If you're target shooting there's no need to ever use the thumb safety on a 1911 - it's either loaded and you're firing, or it's clear and on the bench.
As has been said you can buy ones with ambi safety, or have one installed on any model.
The mag release is ideal for us sinistral folk - hit it with trigger or middle finger. Gives you more leverage on it than the thumb does. I wouldn't buy a hinky RHS release for a 1911, even if they weren't priced ridiculously.
My only ding against the CZ is the short length of pull on the trigger, plus I grip high enough that I tend to crowd the safety, moving it into partial engagement which really drags on the trigger. I'm thinking of eventually fitting low profile ones to it. For a lefty it's also difficult to hit the slide release, I find, or perhaps my fingers are just too long.
Interesting that you like the fit of both 1911 and Glock. I've had Glocks and I eventually got tired of the lousy ergos. But I shoot one-handed and the Glock is a double fisted gun and works fine that way. It just isn't my chosen style. The 1911 was designed to be fired single-handed, and so it's perfect for me to wrap my hand around.
I also didn't like the Beretta grip or trigger - I had a Girsan once and just couldn't make it work for me. Good gun otherwise.
As has been said you can buy ones with ambi safety, or have one installed on any model.
The mag release is ideal for us sinistral folk - hit it with trigger or middle finger. Gives you more leverage on it than the thumb does. I wouldn't buy a hinky RHS release for a 1911, even if they weren't priced ridiculously.
My only ding against the CZ is the short length of pull on the trigger, plus I grip high enough that I tend to crowd the safety, moving it into partial engagement which really drags on the trigger. I'm thinking of eventually fitting low profile ones to it. For a lefty it's also difficult to hit the slide release, I find, or perhaps my fingers are just too long.
Interesting that you like the fit of both 1911 and Glock. I've had Glocks and I eventually got tired of the lousy ergos. But I shoot one-handed and the Glock is a double fisted gun and works fine that way. It just isn't my chosen style. The 1911 was designed to be fired single-handed, and so it's perfect for me to wrap my hand around.
I also didn't like the Beretta grip or trigger - I had a Girsan once and just couldn't make it work for me. Good gun otherwise.
