opinons please.
- Thread starter DjamesF
- Start date
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Are you talking new or used? Used ones comes up from time to time on the EE. There is a new Lyman Great Plains flint lock listed on another site at $600.00.
I recently bought a John Clark custom flint lock off of the EE a short time ago at a great price and it came with a new spare lock and accessories.
I recently bought a John Clark custom flint lock off of the EE a short time ago at a great price and it came with a new spare lock and accessories.
I think the lock is the crucial thing to look for. Chose one which either has a good US lock like a Siler or L R or alternately one for which you can swap in a quality lock. Inexpensive locks tend to give nothing but frustration
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
Lonesome Donkey
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Alberta
If you are looking for something inexpensive, and are looking for a rifled bore, not a smoothbore, then the Traditions Kentucky without the patchbox might do. .50 caliber is right for deer.
In the past it was also sold by CVA, in kit or fully assembled.
The barrel is quite accurate despite the lower cost, but the Spanish lock is rather poor.
However, as has been mentioned, you can buy a high quality drop-in lock designed for it (from Track of the Wolf) to upgrade it. Minor fitting to deepen the mortise for the lock slightly is needed, but easy.
The sights are also simple and traditional. Brass blade front and dovetailed fixed rear.
An actual smoothbore might be more of a problem.
Marstar sells Pedersoli smoothbore muskets, which are high quality, but average $1200.00 or more.
tumbleweeds13
CGN Regular
I'm in the process of upgrading my flintlock Smoothbore. I have a couple of different Pedersoli muskets that I'll be selling. Drop me a line if interested and see if what I have interests you. If you're close enough, you're welcome to come and try. That way you'll know if it's your cup of tea. (Western GTA)
Lonesome Donkey
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Alberta
You might also consider the Pedersoli Pennsylvania/Kentucky flintlock rifles in .50 cal.
Some sell at Marstar for $890.00.
Considering prices these days, and the high quality, not that bad.
And ready to go right out of the box.
Some sell at Marstar for $890.00.
Considering prices these days, and the high quality, not that bad.
And ready to go right out of the box.
If you aren't super familiar with black powder I would recommend joining a group first. Especially with Flintlock there can be a steep learning curve and although it's great to learn you don't want to get frustrated with the problems. Also group events will let you see what products are out there. There is always someone selling something and most people will cut a deal if they know it's going to someone starting out.
I would say looking for a used one. Had no idea the locks would be a problem. The more traditional looking the better, however i would sacrifice looks a little for accuracy and functionality.
I was a lunatic about black powder whilst i was younger. had mini cannons and home made muskets and rifles.... so i am defiantly passionate enough to loose an eye in the pursuit of black powder weapons...
I was a lunatic about black powder whilst i was younger. had mini cannons and home made muskets and rifles.... so i am defiantly passionate enough to loose an eye in the pursuit of black powder weapons...
- Location
- Algoma region
I would go with a smoothbore with a large lock. Jacki brown is making them in the white for a fair price if your willing to do a bit of fiddling.
Aside from that I would go pedersoli or try to find a old miroku.
Aside from that I would go pedersoli or try to find a old miroku.
I got a flintlock I got off the EE with all the stuff to shoot it for $600. It was a homemade job, but after getting it I discovered it had a L&R lock and Green Mountain barrel. Stock isn't the best but that can be replaced.
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
This is the Clark flintlock I recently got from a great forum member. It came with a new spare Clark lock and all the accessories as shown at a great price. So if you watch the EE, they do come up. Can't wait for warm weather. I forgot to put the ramrod back in when I took the pics!
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Spend some time on the Track of the Wolf website looking over the guns and gun parts. And their kits and plans.
Flintlock stuff crosses the Border fine. Not a firearm in the US, long gun flinter stuff is considered to not be a firearm for most purposes, here in Canada. So you pay taxes at the Border, and you are good.
If you don't mind fiddling a bit, buy a kit, or even a set of plans and some components. The cheapo kits are pretty much as expensive as buying a cheapo gun ready made, except more work. If you are going to do the work anyway, buy decent parts and save yourself the misery.
Simple and economical? LOL!
It's a rabbit hole!
Cheers
Trev
If you're willing to buy from in the States, check out The Gun Works in Springfield, Oregon. Stopped in on my way through, great place, knowledgeable and extremely helpful. Built guns and kits in their catalogue.
Track is also really good in my mind as well. Have dealt with them a few times, never for guns or parts.
Unfortunately, I've yet to come across a really good black powder shop in Canada that you can check out online. I've heard good comments about Hillfolk Musket Supplies in Senlac, Saskatchewan but have never even spoken with them myself.
Track is also really good in my mind as well. Have dealt with them a few times, never for guns or parts.
Unfortunately, I've yet to come across a really good black powder shop in Canada that you can check out online. I've heard good comments about Hillfolk Musket Supplies in Senlac, Saskatchewan but have never even spoken with them myself.
DjamesF, posting the area you live in would aid us in suggesting groups to contact.
When I started in BP shooting my first two were cap&ball revolvers which I dove head first into using for cowboy action shooting. It went relatively trouble free thanks to lots of reading off the BP sites such as this forum and you tube vids.
When I wanted to go with a BP long gun I wanted to go as different as I was able. So I went with a flint lock instead of a cap lock. I have no regrets that I went that route but the others here are right and it IS a big hill with a steep learning curve. Shooting with the BP group at my local club proved well worth it. Aside from the fact that I enjoy the socializing I was able to get lots of great hints from the other "rock lock" shooters. So if you don't mind a LITTLE bit of potential frustration early on having that big flash go off right in front of your nose really is a hoot!
What you need to know first off is that the lock on a flint lock is everything. If the frizzen is not hard enough it won't spark reliably. If the frizzen does not ride on the tension spring correctly it will give a reduced shower of sparks or will result in reduced number of firings from the flints. Also flint locks pretty much require real black powder where cap locks can get away with the modern substitutes used for muzzle loading. Namely Pyrodex and Triple 7. These two powders being a lot tougher to ignite.
I do not feel that it's good economics to buy a cheap flint lock only to be required to replace the lock. Good lock works are not cheap. You may as well just buy a more expensive flint lock right off the bat.
A fair number of the smoothbore fellows in the local group run muskets purchased from Loyalist Arms. They have nothing but good things to say about the outfit. But they all know that they are buying a gun that needs a lot of tweaking and fettling to turn it into a reliable firearm. More than one of them found that they needed to re-harden the frizzen. And more than one needed other detail fitting to make these guns all fit together well and shoot reliably. That isn't to say that you can't just drill the touch hole and have a good shooter. But don't rely on that being a certainty.
There's also the economics of a smaller caliber in terms of lead and powder used. The bigger bore smooth bores use cast balls that can be used to make two or three times as many .45Cal balls. And roughly twice to three times the powder to shoot the larger size bores as well. So there's much to be said for a smaller .45 or .50 Cal rifled barrel long gun. And it's certainly been my choice.
If you plan on hunting you'll want to stick with a .50 or .54 for the added take down power. Otherwise a .45 makes for a nice sport target shooting gun.
Traditions is a fairly well known and respected brand for cap locks. There are a lot of them in my black powder group. But there isn't a lot of love for the Traditions flint lock rifles. I seem to recall that it was related to frizzens that were too soft and didn't spark adequately.
If you should happen to come across an Armi Sport flint lock or cap lock you should not walk away.... I'd suggest you run instead. Run fast. I bought one way back when I started and only shot it about a half dozen times before the lock work got "sticky". Opening it up and comparing it to pictures and write ups explained why. I won't go into details but they took a short cut and didn't chose to use a part which is considered a basic necessity in all other locks. All to save a few pennies.
If you came across a Lyman Great Plains Rifle for a reasonable price I'd say that would not be a bad place to start. I've been very happy with mine. It was hard on flints at first until I learned a trick from my recently acquired custom flintlock about how the frizzen should move. A small tweak and now I'm getting up around 25 shots before the flint edge needs to be knapped sharp again and then I get another dozen or more before it rounds over again and is too short to use.
And yes. at some point if you get a flintlock you will find that you need to buy your flints from somewhere like Track of the Wolff by the dozen. They don't last forever. With a little fixing of the edge about 3 dozen firings is about all you can expect.
When I started in BP shooting my first two were cap&ball revolvers which I dove head first into using for cowboy action shooting. It went relatively trouble free thanks to lots of reading off the BP sites such as this forum and you tube vids.
When I wanted to go with a BP long gun I wanted to go as different as I was able. So I went with a flint lock instead of a cap lock. I have no regrets that I went that route but the others here are right and it IS a big hill with a steep learning curve. Shooting with the BP group at my local club proved well worth it. Aside from the fact that I enjoy the socializing I was able to get lots of great hints from the other "rock lock" shooters. So if you don't mind a LITTLE bit of potential frustration early on having that big flash go off right in front of your nose really is a hoot!
What you need to know first off is that the lock on a flint lock is everything. If the frizzen is not hard enough it won't spark reliably. If the frizzen does not ride on the tension spring correctly it will give a reduced shower of sparks or will result in reduced number of firings from the flints. Also flint locks pretty much require real black powder where cap locks can get away with the modern substitutes used for muzzle loading. Namely Pyrodex and Triple 7. These two powders being a lot tougher to ignite.
I do not feel that it's good economics to buy a cheap flint lock only to be required to replace the lock. Good lock works are not cheap. You may as well just buy a more expensive flint lock right off the bat.
A fair number of the smoothbore fellows in the local group run muskets purchased from Loyalist Arms. They have nothing but good things to say about the outfit. But they all know that they are buying a gun that needs a lot of tweaking and fettling to turn it into a reliable firearm. More than one of them found that they needed to re-harden the frizzen. And more than one needed other detail fitting to make these guns all fit together well and shoot reliably. That isn't to say that you can't just drill the touch hole and have a good shooter. But don't rely on that being a certainty.
There's also the economics of a smaller caliber in terms of lead and powder used. The bigger bore smooth bores use cast balls that can be used to make two or three times as many .45Cal balls. And roughly twice to three times the powder to shoot the larger size bores as well. So there's much to be said for a smaller .45 or .50 Cal rifled barrel long gun. And it's certainly been my choice.
If you plan on hunting you'll want to stick with a .50 or .54 for the added take down power. Otherwise a .45 makes for a nice sport target shooting gun.
Traditions is a fairly well known and respected brand for cap locks. There are a lot of them in my black powder group. But there isn't a lot of love for the Traditions flint lock rifles. I seem to recall that it was related to frizzens that were too soft and didn't spark adequately.
If you should happen to come across an Armi Sport flint lock or cap lock you should not walk away.... I'd suggest you run instead. Run fast. I bought one way back when I started and only shot it about a half dozen times before the lock work got "sticky". Opening it up and comparing it to pictures and write ups explained why. I won't go into details but they took a short cut and didn't chose to use a part which is considered a basic necessity in all other locks. All to save a few pennies.
If you came across a Lyman Great Plains Rifle for a reasonable price I'd say that would not be a bad place to start. I've been very happy with mine. It was hard on flints at first until I learned a trick from my recently acquired custom flintlock about how the frizzen should move. A small tweak and now I'm getting up around 25 shots before the flint edge needs to be knapped sharp again and then I get another dozen or more before it rounds over again and is too short to use.
And yes. at some point if you get a flintlock you will find that you need to buy your flints from somewhere like Track of the Wolff by the dozen. They don't last forever. With a little fixing of the edge about 3 dozen firings is about all you can expect.
.50 seems to be the most available caliber by far, moving up would give you more of a comfort zone. But I've found quite a few people willing to tag a deer with a .45. No doubt lots of elk or moose have been grounded by them as well.
The more powerful the caliber, the more fudge factor you have if you err.
If you want to go flint, stay away from the sawn agate flints that are avail. Bad rep which is proven in my experience. Buy knapped flints, preferably from a reputable source. A decently cared for and set up flinter is pretty reliable (I've even fired mine upside down), I've seen some caplocks from reputable manufacturers that took three tries for every shot all day long. Pretty sure it was the owner or issue with individual gun, not a design or assembly flaw.
Learn how to make your own flints and start paying more attention to the rocks you step over?
The more powerful the caliber, the more fudge factor you have if you err.
If you want to go flint, stay away from the sawn agate flints that are avail. Bad rep which is proven in my experience. Buy knapped flints, preferably from a reputable source. A decently cared for and set up flinter is pretty reliable (I've even fired mine upside down), I've seen some caplocks from reputable manufacturers that took three tries for every shot all day long. Pretty sure it was the owner or issue with individual gun, not a design or assembly flaw.
Learn how to make your own flints and start paying more attention to the rocks you step over?
located in vancouver, I think my best bet is looking at the EE for something to come up. Still have not been granted access to the fourm yet....... so it is just a waiting game...
That clark is exactly the look i am going for....would like it to be .50 cal or larger as i am a hunter and could see using it for a hunt once i get used to the
BP ways.
That clark is exactly the look i am going for....would like it to be .50 cal or larger as i am a hunter and could see using it for a hunt once i get used to the
BP ways.
In that case you've got a good support group you can lean on. Ridgedale club has a strong BP group and monthly club shoots. As does Chilliwack. And typically there's a few folks with guns to sell that are kicking around. You just missed the Chilliwack Winter Rendevous this past weekend and there were a few different BP cap and flint lock guns there for sale at the trade area.
The Mission club has a small group that is working at becoming a larger group as well.
For the monthly club shoots both Ridgedale and Chilliwack welcome visitors from other clubs or even folks like yourself just right off the street to come out and see what is going on. And almost certainly you'd be handed a rifle or three to try.
The big HACS and Kamloops shows are coming up as well and there's lots of BP guns at both of those as well. A few show up often enough at the regular monthly swap meets that HACS holds at the Evergreen hall here in Chilliwack as well.
So there's lots of options and frankly once you see how many are up for grabs you will realize that you can even afford to be particular as long as you can have a little patience.
Rusty Wood carries proper Goex black powder in stock as well. The bigger issue is a good supply of round ball and caps or flints. THOSE are the things that are hard to get for a reasonable price. When basic round ball hit $20/100 I said to heck with that and started casting my own. I've gotten some lead for free and bought a bit here and there so my round ball is costing me about $1/100 at this point and about $100 to get set up with a pot and a couple of sets of suitable molds.
The Mission club has a small group that is working at becoming a larger group as well.
For the monthly club shoots both Ridgedale and Chilliwack welcome visitors from other clubs or even folks like yourself just right off the street to come out and see what is going on. And almost certainly you'd be handed a rifle or three to try.
The big HACS and Kamloops shows are coming up as well and there's lots of BP guns at both of those as well. A few show up often enough at the regular monthly swap meets that HACS holds at the Evergreen hall here in Chilliwack as well.
So there's lots of options and frankly once you see how many are up for grabs you will realize that you can even afford to be particular as long as you can have a little patience.
Rusty Wood carries proper Goex black powder in stock as well. The bigger issue is a good supply of round ball and caps or flints. THOSE are the things that are hard to get for a reasonable price. When basic round ball hit $20/100 I said to heck with that and started casting my own. I've gotten some lead for free and bought a bit here and there so my round ball is costing me about $1/100 at this point and about $100 to get set up with a pot and a couple of sets of suitable molds.
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Black powder shoots in the lower mainland.
1st Sunday of the month; PoCo range, ( http://www.pcdhfc.com/blackpowder.htm ); Ridgedale range Matsqui. ( http://ridgedale.net/sections/black-powder )
#rd Sunday of the month; Chilliwack Fish & Game; ( http://www.chilliwackfishandgame.com/portfolio/black-powder/ )
1st Sunday of the month; PoCo range, ( http://www.pcdhfc.com/blackpowder.htm ); Ridgedale range Matsqui. ( http://ridgedale.net/sections/black-powder )
#rd Sunday of the month; Chilliwack Fish & Game; ( http://www.chilliwackfishandgame.com/portfolio/black-powder/ )
