Optics and ballistics

[w squared]

I'm looking to start shooting service conditions in the Caglary area (now that I finally have a job that MIGHT let me attend half the matches). I know that at some point I'll want to become reasonably competitive, so I've got a couple of equipment questions.

I've got a 1.1-4X optic on my AR that I love...but it does not have target turrets or a bullet drop reticle - it's really a hunting scope . On a short barreled AR inside 200 meters (with the correct zero), this doesn't really matter. With the correct ammo, the scope's still contributing less error than I am on most shots that are taken while standing.

Second, my AR has an 11.5" barrel.

Are these two items going to be a big issue for me once I start shooting from the 300, 400, and 500 berms?

On the positive side, these are not things that I feel a pressing need to resolve. I'll be perfectly happy for now with the mediocre (although steadily improving) scores that will result from a guy that hasn't shot a service conditions match in 10 years and is using a not-yet tuned Norinco M14 with iron sights and SA surplus ammo.

 

[rnbra-shooter]

An 11.5" barrel shouldn't be a major problem. It'll be louder, and you might lose 250fps, but neither of those are showstoppers by any means, even out to 500m.

If you shoot 68/69 grain match ammo, you might be getting a 2750fps muzzle velocity (vs. ~3000 fps with a 20" bbl). Or if you're shooting 62 grain issue ammunition, its ballistics will be pretty similar.

Let's say you sight in your scope so that it is zeroed at 300m. In this case, this will be your trajectories. A positive number means the bullet is striking above your point of aim, a negative number means the bullet is striking below your POA:

Hdy. 68BTHP @ 2750fps

100m +6.4" (+5.6MOA)
200m +7.4" (+3.2MOA)
300m 0.0"
400m -18" (-4.0MOA)
500m -50" (-8.8MOA)

You might be able to shoot the entire Service Conditions match by just holding over or holding under:

At 100m and 200m you would aim about 6" low; you might be able to find a convenient reliable aim point on the target.

At 300m, just aim on (even a shooter can figure that out!!)

At 400m, you need to figure out a reliable way to aim 18" high. If the target at 400m is in the centre of a 4' square frame, you could aim 2/3rds of the way up, between the centre of the target and the top edge.

A 500m you need to aim 4' high. On a 4' square target frame, the top edge is 2' above centre. So aim that much again above the top edge of the frame, and you should be OK.

You'll be able to aim well enough with a 4X scope, though the target at 500 looks terribly, terrible small. Yet you'll be able to aim well enough to hit the bullseye most of the time, believe it or not...(!)

 

[beltfed]

I shot my first year with Irons, so you can certainly show up with what you have and see where you want to concentrate your efforts on gear and equipment upgrades. You can see (and more often than not, try) what others are using for optics/rifle combinations.

Based on what you have, I'd probably recommend a 16 to 20" barreled flat top upper for your AR and a varriable power optic with turrets.
Bullet drop indicators are ok, but turrets are far more adaptable for different guns and ammuniton types, and more precise.

 

[Savage]

I shot my first year with Irons, so you can certainly show up with what you have and see where you want to concentrate your efforts on gear and equipment upgrades. You can see (and more often than not, try) what others are using for optics/rifle combinations.

Based on what you have, I'd probably recommend a 16 to 20" barreled flat top upper for your AR and a varriable power optic with turrets.
Bullet drop indicators are ok, but turrets are far more adaptable for different guns and ammuniton types, and more precise.

I will echo what Beltfed has said. I hope to see you on the firing line lots of different equipment combinations

 

[alexD92]

I know there is alot of hate towards it, but Elcan is a good optic for service rifle.

I

my Elcan

 

[beltfed]

I used an Elcan for a couple of years and they are certainly a viable option.
If you were to go that route, I'd recommend a gently used gen. 4 and open-gate it.

 

[w squared]

I used an Elcan for a couple of years and they are certainly a viable option.
If you were to go that route, I'd recommend a gently used gen. 4 and open-gate it.

Sorry..."open-gate"? I'm not quite sure what that means.

I know from experience that my scores improved (like most soldiers) when I went from a C7 with irons to a C7A1 with an Elcan, so I woulnd't be all that adverse to using one.

I like your idea of seeing what other folks have though. I've got no problem with focusing on building my skills while shooting an iron sighted Norc, and then as I become more competitive down the road I can switch over to an AR platform.

Neither of the optics that I have with target turrets at the moment are really suitable for mounting on an AR that's being used for service conditions - one's a 10X40 Bushnell 3200, and the other's a 6-24X50 Bushnell 4200. Far too much glass for the application.

 

[beltfed]

Sorry..."open-gate"? I'm not quite sure what that means.

The sight elevation drum at the rear is set to the bare metal 'tab' at 100m (or is it 200m? - can't remember)
Anyhow, zero at 100m and then get your come ups with the tab in the 'up' position - it is finer than druming up in 100m incriments per the bullet drop on the drum.

Neither of the optics that I have with target turrets at the moment are really suitable for mounting on an AR that's being used for service conditions - one's a 10X40 Bushnell 3200, and the other's a 6-24X50 Bushnell 4200. Far too much glass for the application.

You could mount the variable and compete with that no problem. Depending on the field of view, the 6 power shouldn't be too much glass, and would work fine at 100m.