Optics for F-class

Well today I spent the most money I ever have on a single firearms related item (don't tell the Mrs). :) Or maybe I should tell her so the F class rifle isn't such a shock next year...lol

HiPro had a Nightforce 8-32 in stock with the 2DD recticle. I can't wait to start punching paper with it and slaying Prairie Dogs down south in a couple of weeks.

Thanks all for the guidance. It is much appreciated. Oh and PrairieGuy I should come clean on something....I'm not Dan. :D
 
toxic said:
Well today I spent the most money I ever have on a single firearms related item (don't tell the Mrs). :) Or maybe I should tell her so the F class rifle isn't such a shock next year...lol

HiPro had a Nightforce 8-32 in stock with the 2DD recticle. I can't wait to start punching paper with it and slaying Prairie Dogs down south in a couple of weeks.

Thanks all for the guidance. It is much appreciated. Oh and PrairieGuy I should come clean on something....I'm not Dan. :D
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I know. Figured that out a while ago. I guess I wasn't paying attention when I replied to your post. Dan posts as rdgeitz. So, who are you? I know we've met at St. Charles. I just can't put the nickname to a face.
 
prairieguy said:
I know. Figured that out a while ago. I guess I wasn't paying attention when I replied to your post. Dan posts as rdgeitz. So, who are you? I know we've met at St. Charles. I just can't put the nickname to a face.
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Nope. But I'm a regular at IPSC and I shot MDPL until life got busy about a year and half ago. PM inbound. :)
 
It's here! :eek:OMG...how did I ever live without one of these before? The clairity is so awesome it defies description. I've taken a day off work to range test it tomorrow. Can't wait!
 
toxic said:
It's here! :eek:OMG...how did I ever live without one of these before? The clairity is so awesome it defies description. I've taken a day off work to range test it tomorrow. Can't wait!
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Thats exactly how I felt when I bought my NXS. WORTH EVERY PENNY!
 
I went the same route as prairieguy. I think Obtunded's and some other cgn'rs advice steered me that way. The 8-32 nightforce with the np2dd is nice and clean and fairly inexpensive for a precsion scope.The adjustable objective is different but it locks right in, the fast focus piece is nice and the clicks are great. i have it mounted on my trg-22 with a 0 base and unfortunately I only kept 21 and 7/8 MOA up.My shooter friend has the model NXS model with MLR in the same magnification. I would like to see if the AO or the side parallax makes a difference. I have been reading and they say that the AO is a little bit more clear due to the fact that they do not have to add another piece of glass for the side parallax turret.I'll compare the 2 when i can.I am glad i went with this reticle. I was fixed on another combat reticle but for target practice, i now feel the dot is the best. Even dry firing on some trees outside my window at 300 yards, the dot really helps you focus on the target. I am not too concerned with the trade off of durability of the NXS over the BR model. This is will be a fclass target rifle scope only.I am really happy with this scope so far. Good choice.
 
The NXS is a fine scope but until they come up with standard 1/8MOA adjustments on it, I'll steer clear. In F-Class we are shooting at fixed, known distance targets. The AO is set and forget, and I DO feel the BR are clearer, but I am sure there are others that disagree. I am delighted you like the NP2DD. It is the overwhelming choice for NF shooters on targets. FYI, the distance between the dots and the horizontal reticle bars is 1MOA. This is actually a VERY handy tool for holding off and using the ring lines as references, and for measuring bullet drift.
 
Tomorrow I will let R700 shoot a few rounds through my TRG's that wear a NXS 8-32x56 and Sightron 10-50x60 while I shoot a few through his wearing the NF BR. Two guys shooting the same rifles wearing three different scopes should be able to come up with an interesting review. He will of course shoot better than I because his bloody eyes are over twenty years younger than mine ( that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it !! )

One of us will post our findings here.
 
Mystic Precision said:
I compete with the SIII 10-50X60 scope with FCH. It is everything an F class scope could be with excellent optics and rock solid tracking. Side focus works superbly.

Dialed back, it would work very well as a varmint scope if not a bit big.

Nothing on the market even remotely close to this performance even at double the price.

Jerry
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Jerry,

How much are they? You handle them?

Ted
 
This has turned into a very infomative post. I took the NF to the range yesterday mounted on my ATRS AR upper. I never realized how much patience it takes to follow the procedure to break in a match barrel - but it's done now.

The NF scope is very clear and the 32 magnification is not too much even for the shorter 200 yard range I was shooting on. The side focus is very slick and brings everything in clear. As mentioned before once you are focused there is no parallax at that given range - I did only have 200 yards to play with.

The 2DD dot setup is slick for engaging targets that are in the grass or on a berm. I think it will be perfect for splatting prairie dogs. As for target shooting it took a bit of time to get used to. I don't know what F class targets look like but on the standard 100 yard rifle targets I was using I would loose the dot on the black target from time to time. This is where I found it critical to have the occular adjustment just right to see the dot. It also seems that if you adjust the side focus to put the slightest blur on the target you can see the dot better. This is probably not a good thing to do because it must defeat the parralax adjustment. More playing around is in order. Others have posted about losing the dot but I figured that with the near 20-20 eyesight in my shooting eye that wouldn't happen. Maybe I was wrong...

I hope to have good weather on Sunday to finish sighting in this rifle and play with the scope before I head south. It even seems like this upper likes shooting Varmint Grenades since they grouped tighter than the other bullets I tried. I was getting worried based on what I had read about the VG bullets.
 
The dot is completely visible on a black target, which tends to appear grey at F-Class distances. Also, the BR model has a lighted reticle, and on many a hazy day I have used it with great success. Physiologically it is natural for us to center a dot within a dot. That is why target dots are the best choice bar none.


You nailed it on the head though... makes sure your reticle is crisp. This setting never changes, so set and forget. Best way to focus that is using an out-of-focus background in the scope.

I use target dot reticles on everything except my hunting rifle (wish it was an option) and I especially like it for gopers. There is no way you could see a gopher head at 600M using a quarter minute dot, or a cluttered cross hair reticle.
 
Obtunded said:
The NXS is a fine scope but until they come up with standard 1/8MOA adjustments on it, I'll steer clear. In F-Class we are shooting at fixed, known distance targets. The AO is set and forget, and I DO feel the BR are clearer, but I am sure there are others that disagree. I am delighted you like the NP2DD. It is the overwhelming choice for NF shooters on targets. FYI, the distance between the dots and the horizontal reticle bars is 1MOA. This is actually a VERY handy tool for holding off and using the ring lines as references, and for measuring bullet drift.
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According to the NF website, the NXS IS available with 1/8MOA turrets, zero stop and high speed adjustments. If I had the cash I wouldn't even think twice about picking one of those bad boys up. I REALLY need an optics upgrade....
 
I said i would weigh in on 3 scopes that were mentioned as i have had the opportunity today to look through a sightron SIII-8-32 FCH, Nightforce NXS 8-32 MLR and my Nightforce Benchrest 8-32 NP2DD. Just for the record that my eyes have been cleared as 20/20 vision by a RMO for the DND. Not that has anything to do with anything. Just saying that i have no eye problems. It was an overcast day at 220 yards at my range. Between the 2 nightforce scopes @ 32x power, there was no difference in clarity that warrants a mention. The NXS parallax adjustment is very fine and nice. The one thing i can say about the BR model is the same thing Obtunded mentioned about fixed distances and setting the AO and not worrying about it. I like how the AO has numbers on it. Dial it to the range with a little tweak and she stays.This is 100% bang on for that..Owning a mark 4, i would have to say that the colours are a little warmer than the NF. The thing i noticed about both NF is that there is a slight slight blue to the glass at 32x. Very slight. I say the clarity is the same as the mark 4. Now between mark 4's and NF its all about preference. I like both for different reasons. Both my NF and mark 4 are spot on for tracking which is great. I like the TMR reticle better than NF Np-R1 and MLR reticle. I like the glass etched reticle better than the wire reticle of the mark 4. I like the weight better of the mark 4. NF for the durability and so on.Both the mark 4 and NF BR are awesome either way. I am glad i went with the np2dd for target. If target stuff is your game then this is the reticle. The dot is the best i feel for any pinpoint kinda stuff. I really like the this reticle the best out of the NF line of things for me. I think the MLR is a bit too thick. If only NF made the TMR reticle.Obtunded has nailed this thread about the NF benchrest model and the NP2DD reticle. I shoot with both eyes open and the NP2DD reticle is better for that than my Mark 4. Something about the design of the reticle helps lead the eye right onto the dot. I am a big advocator of both eyes open. NP2DD reticle has no distractions....i shoot right eye and i am left eye dominant. I sometimes find my eyes weaken with the TMR just because of the "busy-ness" of the reticle and i'll be forced to close my left eye. My eyes are very relaxed with the NP2DD. Another little extra for the both eyes open shooters.

Now for the Sightron. The glass loses a bit to the mark 4 and the NF. Not in clarity but it definitely has a more blue tint than the NF. I noticed that right away. The Side Parralax is a little more touchy for my eyes. I would have it dialed then it would go back out. The Mark 4 and both NFs did not do that for me.I think the FCH is a bit too fine but that might be a plus for some. I cannot comment on the tracking of the sightron because i did not do anything with it. Tomochan will probably have a better take on the tracking. All in all, these scopes are great. Just whatever suits your budget and tastes.

Mark 4- Pros-clean glass, great reticle, warm colours, excellent tracking, overall light weight, nice turrets, very durable for field stuff.By field stuff, i mean crashing through the bush to find your long range spot not field stuff in terms of combat shooting.
Mark 4 - Cons-price is a bit much, wire reticle.

NF benchrest np2dd- Pros-Awesome glass etched reticle, clean glass, excellent tracking, the best out of the 3 for turret clicks, AO is great,NXS model most durable. My NF BR was $1275.
NF benchrest cons- Heavy, slight blue tinge at full power.NXS can be pricey

Sightron- Pros- price is the best
Sightron Cons- more noticeable blue tinge.

Can't really weigh in more on the sightron but alot of people like em. Tomochan will probably do a solid review on these as well. I am glad i own both the mark 4 and NF. I think my np2dd reticle will spend more time on my TRG. I think this is the best reticle for target stuff. Ask Tomochan about the 220 yard group i put together. I can tell you he set a nice 5 rd with his nightforce MLR. No more than 0.75 @ 220 yards. 0.75 might be a bit on the big side. Wish i kept my target but i started taking cracks at it after being swayed into using a muzzle break for the last shots of the day..my friends help me blow my money out the door.

Side note. I had the chance to look through a premier scope and yes they are everything that people say about them. Another level of pure awesome. Check out that TRG eye candy....Wow.
 
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In the main I agree with R700. While it is true that my eyes are no longer 20/20 the fact remains that I cannot tell one whit of difference between the clarity of the NF benchrest and the NF NXS. Some of what follows may be interesting to you but a choice between these scopes will often be determined by (a) application; (b) personal preference; and, (c) budget. Here are my thoughts/observations:

None of the three are small scopes - The NF BR weighs 36 oz and is 16.6" long, the NXS is 34 oz and 15.9" while the Sightron is 28.9 oz and 16.9"

Internal adjustments (elevation) are NF BR 50 MOA, NXS 65 MOA and Sightron 50 MOA. None of these are bad numbers but if you are planning to 'get out there' you will need a rail that has 20 MOA or so slope.

The side focus on the NXS is easier and faster to operate than the AO on the BR - no surprise here - and stays set equally well. This is a plus if shooting to a variety of distances but irrelevant for F-Class where shooting is done at known distances.

The side focus on the Sightron is, as R700 says, not as good as NXS and is more "fussy" requiring periodic resetting.

The Sightron has a big advantage over both the NF offerings maxing out at a whopping 50 magnification but the NF at a 32 max ought to be enough for the vast majority of shooting applications.

Reticle choice ought to be guided by application - I have the Sightron with Fine Cross Hair for F-Class and the NXS with MLR for pretty much everything else. While intended application ought to be determinative sometimes it is what you like to see or are comfortable with or used to that will determine your choice. My feeling is that the MLR is more useful across a wider range of shooting scenarios that either the FCR or the NP2 DD but I must say that I may have made a poor choice with FCH for target shooting as NP2 DD is just about perfect for that application.

Click adjustments are excellent on all scopes - one-eight on the NF BR and Sightron is the way to go for F-Class but the quarter value on the NXS is better for pretty much most else and allows for easier math in calculating comeups when going from one distance to another.

While I think all are excellent/very good scopes the NF are simply better than the Sightron but it terms of value for money the Sightron is definitely one to consider. The differences between the NF BR and NXS are negligible but the NXS is certainly a lot more money - you pay for stuff you hopefully don't need like durability in combat and all that sort of stuff - but there is something I really like about the NXS and my next expensive glass purchase will be the NXS in 12-42x56.

Here is a crap cellphone pic of the scopes and their horses ( the other scopes in the picture are various Elite 4200 and 6500's - very good value for the money but not in NF league for glass quality and lacking the magnification power of the Sightron ).

IMG00043-20110528-0919.jpg


Not that we were competing, but being guys we did anyway. Sadly I had my ass kicked by R700 and C3pppo today but I saved some face by producing this effort at 225 yards - not as good as those guys but at least I left the range with my head up a little bit lol !

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Enjoy shopping for scopes !
 
i just received a new sightron s3 lrmoa, it\'s no nightforce, i don\'t care what people are saying. Optical quality is on par with the elite 6500\'s that i have owned, the tracking may be better but i haven\'t got that far with it. It\'s not as heavy or robust as the NF, the optical quality is not as good and the clicks are nowhere near as positive. IMHO, if you want good glass, start with Nf and work your way up as I don\'t believe there are any shortcuts.
 
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It does not matter if you have poor eyesight, because the rear element has a dioptric ajustment and you can focus the scope for your eyes... as good as wearing the best glasses. It is the same reason mypoic people don't 'need' glasses to look through binoculars.
 
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