Optics mounts, what's the black ju-ju involved to get the correct one?

Painkillers

Painkillers

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Guys, I believe I've figured out why I'm having to perform ju-jitsu behind my optics to get a proper picture, my mounts are too low. When I take the optic off and simply cheek weld, everything feels normal (ie, lop isn't the problem). With the optic mounted, I have to roll my head on top of the stock. My "cheek weld" is literally the top of my cheek bone rather than jaw line...so the optic has to go up.

Aside from just buying mounts to see what works and what doesn't, thereby flooding the EE with my cut rate discards, is there a formula or some sort of mathmatical equation that will tell me what type and height I need to purchase?

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I looked and couldn't find a thread.

TIA,
 
LOL, exact opposite of another thread (Ruger OEM rings), where if it's not as low as physically possible then your told it's comically high and your a clueless shooter.

It doesn't matter if it works for you, it's not right, according to some.
I know someone who uses Xtra high rings on everything and he shoots just dandy.
 
Painkillers said:
... Aside from just buying mounts to see what works and what doesn't, thereby flooding the EE with my cut rate discards, is there a formula or some sort of mathmatical equation that will tell me what type and height I need to purchase?
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Adjustable height mounts like eaglevisioncam for example can give you a solution if you not talking big recoil large bores.
Yes, you can calculate a "formula", and call somebody technical around you when we do this exercise...
You didn't told me you shooting offhand or BR or prone...the scope height = eye box could be a bit different height and position F-R or U-L.
With an existing scope mounted,
close your eyes and take a shooting position with anchor point of your preference/comfort position...
open your eyes...
Where is the scope pupil center in relation to your eye ball center? lower or higher or a bit aside?
The second person to measure the scope pupil to your eye ball... that much is the offset you need to calculate from existing scope rings.
This is a ballpark only where you start next.
Is your cheekweld hard or moving L-R? Maybe the rifle stock is not a fit? The best is to have the stock go around your face?
 
Agree with the others, it's a PITA and you just have to try lots. It gets easier as you collect a bunch of "not right for that rifle/optic pair" mounts, don't sell them off if you don't have to.

bigHUN said:
...Is your cheekweld hard or moving L-R? Maybe the rifle stock is not a fit? The best is to have the stock go around your face?
Click to expand...
This is another factor that isn't covered in the basic "scope fitting" threads out there. Different cheek bones can benefit from different shaped stocks. And the harder the contact point is, the less forgiving the stock shape becomes. Personally I don't like the feeling of a squishy contact point, but there's no arguing that it does make things more forgiving.
 
especially with the heavy hitters, there is a compromise to how recoil is felt through the cheek rest
I found taller rings to help on a 338

In general also found that body/shoulder position had a lot to do with cheek position, and at the bench a taller rest set-up allowed for a more upright position behind the recoil pad. made some adjustments to scope eye relief and location of butt on the shoulder pocket and found things far more comfortble and repeatable
Pain, if you're finding you are laying over too much maybe try a taller position for a different cheek aspect
 
Painkillers said:
Excellent advice fella's, I have some playing about to do.
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Consider adding a picatinny rail if you can, even if only for experimental purposes.

LOTS of different heights available, and the ability to move the rings fore and aft was most instructive for me.

Positional shooting makes this really interesting. Optimizing for one shooting position is easy, but getting a setup to work well from prone to standing is a lot of fun.

I used to crawl stocks pretty severely - having the ability to easily move the scope back helped me get my shoulders square to the rifle and manage recoil a lot more effectively.

Once I figured the mechanics of that out, I ended up shortening my stocks and moving the rings forward again.

Using the 'crook of the elbow' measurement for LOP, my rifles were setup for about 14". Turns out 13-1/2" works better for me - but I don't shoot BR or F-Class. Ergonomics are an individual thing, and the discipline or shooting style plays into it as well.

Good luck in your quest 👍
 
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The "rifles" at question are Tavor's (x95 and 7), so pic rail isn't an issue. There's tonnes of it. The correct height is making me "crawl the stocks" as you say. The vast majority of my shooting is seated at a range, but prone and off hand is also done. 80%-20% I'd estimate.

I have a 1.93" Burris PEPR mount inbound. I figure if it works for one, it'll work for the other as well?
 
Painkillers said:
The "rifles" at question are Tavor's (x95 and 7), so pic rail isn't an issue. There's tonnes of it. The correct height is making me "crawl the stocks" as you say. The vast majority of my shooting is seated at a range, but prone and off hand is also done. 80%-20% I'd estimate.

I have a 1.93" Burris PEPR mount inbound. I figure if it works for one, it'll work for the other as well?
Click to expand...
Went through a similar (expensive) journey and found the 1.93" mount was right for the X95 rail height. Probably could have gone higher but didn't want to deal with those drawbacks.
 
Painkillers said:
The "rifles" at question are Tavor's (x95 and 7), so pic rail isn't an issue. There's tonnes of it. The correct height is making me "crawl the stocks" as you say. The vast majority of my shooting is seated at a range, but prone and off hand is also done. 80%-20% I'd estimate.

I have a 1.93" Burris PEPR mount inbound. I figure if it works for one, it'll work for the other as well?
Click to expand...
I personally like a lower 1/3 height mount (for a magnified optic) on the 7, they have a slightly higher rail than the X95. I find it easier/more consistent to get behind.

X95 lower 1/3 to 1.93" works well, depending on the shooter/optic.

Obviously each shooter is different however
 
Painkillers said:
The "rifles" at question are Tavor's (x95 and 7), so pic rail isn't an issue. There's tonnes of it. The correct height is making me "crawl the stocks" as you say. The vast majority of my shooting is seated at a range, but prone and off hand is also done. 80%-20% I'd estimate.

I have a 1.93" Burris PEPR mount inbound. I figure if it works for one, it'll work for the other as well?
Click to expand...
Ah, that's a factor for sure. Bullpups fit weird, and generally seem to wind up with greater height-over-bore. Plus, the shape and width of the stock at the comb puts your head in a different position compared to conventional stocks, potentially compounding the issues depending on the shape of your cheekbone and jaw. It's one of the reasons I don't favour bullpups for actual shooting duties.

Your incoming mount is probably a good bet, let us know how it goes.
 
Its hard to find a fixed scope and cheekpiece position that is optimal for sitting, standing and prone. It will be a compromise. There are multi adjustable stocks that can make it more suitable but not always optimal.
You cant ‘resist’ recoil on any mid power or higher rifle but you can make it easier to accommodate it by ‘rolling’ with it (hard to do in prone position) or byincreasing the weight of the rifle.
 
I took my rifle and scope into my local gun shop and we tried a couple different ring sets to get the correct fit. They then mounted the scope for me with the chosen rings. It cost me an hour of my time and the price of 1 set of rings.
 
Good news! 1.93" P.E.P.R. mount is the perfect height on an x95!

I have mounted my Riton 3x, 1-8x24 LPVO and the eye box is now instantaneously, and repeatedly correct when sholdering. However, and it may be due to the OG thin butt pad, I find the the rifle sits slightly canted in my shoulder. In order to "square" the reticle, I have ever so slightly canted the LPVO clockwise a few degrees.

All of my other optics are mounted level with the receiver, including my Tavor 7. Have any of you guys come across a rifle that cants counter clockwise and you've felt the need to cant the scope reticle?
 
Mik123 said:
I went with a 48 mm Spuhr mount for my X95. I wouldn't want to go any lower.
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I'm going to try the 1.93" height on my Tavor 7, if I feel it needs to come down ever so slightly, I'll be going with your Spuhr option. As Spuhr only seem to make mounts for 30mm and larger tubes, it'll give me an excuse to up my scope game at the same time. ;)
 
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