Optics Necessary on Rimfire?

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Idcurrie

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Hi guys.

When I moved out here from Ontario I scoped out all my rifles that didn't have them and purchased some new 'big game' hunting rifles with scopes.

I used to hunt deer in Ontario with a Savage Super Sporter .300 Svg. It has no optics and no easy way to ad them. I just used the peep sight that was installed on it probably 60-80 years ago. It works great in Ontario since deer hunting there meant going out into the bush, looking at tracks/trails and trying to stay down wind of where you think they're going to come. Shots were usually 30-40 yards so optics were completely unnecessary.

I realize that Alberta is a totally different game. Last year we drove to some cabin we rented about 6 hrs north of edmonton and every shot was relatively long. The running Elk shot was about 130 yards (right behind the head in the spine!) and the moose and deer shots varied between 100-200 yards approximately. There was simply no challenge in those, unlike the Elk shot.

Anyway, so since moving here I've scoped out all my .22s and everything. I was just watching 'top shot' season 2 and the only rifle they've ever used a scope on is the .50 at 1000 yards. Everything else, they're just shooting with irons. Whether it's quick carnival style shooting with the ruger 10/22 or using the M1 Garand or any number of other rifles, it's always with irons...and they're doing well.

So, it got me thinking, is there really any NEED for optics on .22s? Isn't it better to just become a proficient shooter with irons? Irons will never break nor will they get fogged up...
 
Shooting rifles with open sights is a very good way to learn to shoot, and 22's you could get away without them for their close range use.

When the front sight is bigger than the (animals vitals) image of where you can reasonably place the bullet, a scope is needed.
 
7mmlefty said:
Shooting rifles with open sights is a very good way to learn to shoot, and 22's you could get away without them for their close range use.

When the front sight is bigger than the (animals vitals) image of where you can reasonably place the bullet, a scope is needed.
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...or a smaller front sight ;)

use whatever your eyes will tolerate.
 
7mmlefty said:
Shooting rifles with open sights is a very good way to learn to shoot, and 22's you could get away without them for their close range use.
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I don't understand this rational, running a marathon with sandals is a very good way to learn to run, but sure a hell of a lot more comfortable to do so in New Balance, your feet will hurt less, and you will run faster, same with scopes. why would you shoot with irons when you don't have too? The best way to teach a kid to shoot is to put a good scope on a 22, and teach him all the fundamentals of shooting, once the kid can shoot then take the scope off and teach them to shoot with irons by this time they know how to handle the gun steady the gun and will be able to line up the irons a lot more easily and have to worry much less about everything else. They learn better, and faster. Old school is not always the best school.
 
Idcurrie said:
....is there really any NEED for optics on .22s? Isn't it better to just become a proficient shooter with irons? Irons will never break nor will they get fogged up...
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For me :redface: , there is a world of difference shooting through optics at even 25 yards :) , and even more so at 50 yards....;)

Also, I can get much closer to shooting at the limits of my firearms/ammunition when I use optics...:yingyang:
 
dizzy said:
I don't understand this rational, running a marathon with sandals is a very good way to learn to run, but sure a hell of a lot more comfortable to do so in New Balance, your feet will hurt less, and you will run faster, same with scopes. why would you shoot with irons when you don't have too? The best way to teach a kid to shoot is to put a good scope on a 22, and teach him all the fundamentals of shooting, once the kid can shoot then take the scope off and teach them to shoot with irons by this time they know how to handle the gun steady the gun and will be able to line up the irons a lot more easily and have to worry much less about everything else. They learn better, and faster. Old school is not always the best school.
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I dunno about that. When I was in the Scouts, we learned how to read maps and use compasses; this was well before the common use of GPS that everyone has nowdays.
Teach a kid how to navigate the bush with a GPS, then take it away and replace it with a compass and a map. I'll bet money that you'll need to ring up the rescue crews to find them again because they'll get lost within ten minutes. Especially true for when the batteries on their GPS run dry by surprise and they don't even have the benefit of a map.

Irons will teach patience, will teach choosing one's movement and position, will give a kid the understanding of the importance of stealth and approach to get the shot. Give them a 6x zoom and they'll just sit on the hill getting fatter while pegging away without even trying hard.

I use scopes for Gopher pegging because it is just stupid fun, but for serious work I run with iron.
 
Fwiw

As a young teen I could shoot all day with target sites and score consistant 99/100's.
As I approach 50 I can't even see the damn target at 25 yards anymore without optics.
Like others have said, use what you want/need ro get the job done.
 
I personaly like optics on my .22 gopher plinker. Mainly because I find myself taging my targets at 125-200 yards. I love irons on anything, but I love saving ammo even more by getting an assured hit. Not to mention, I am near sighted and can't see much farther than 50 yards effectively.

As everyone has said before me, everyone has different body mechanics and needs to tweek their set up to suit their needs.
 
Nothing says you can't use both. Personally, I prefer rifles with iron sights, even if it's just to have them there in a backup capacity, but I will practice with
the irons just so I know how they will shoot, then practice some more with the scope attached. I imagine if someone used iron sights all their life they would
probably be quite proficient with them. As with most things, practice makes perfect and I'm sure that applies to gun sights whether they're iron, or glass.
All that said, being good with iron sights would take more discipline, especially as the range increases and that discipline couldn't hurt when it comes time to
use a scope.
 
I like optics on my .22s.

My favourite has "Qwik Site" (sp?) see-through mounts. Scope is mil-dot 3-9 40mm zeroed at 100. If I can see it with open sights, it's mine. If I'm having fun at 100yds+ I can still see...at 8x I can actually see the holes in the paper at 100.

Use what you enjoy!
 
Isn't this the reason most of us solved the dilemma buy having more than one .22 in varying configurations (irons, peep, scoped)?

Having a rig with good irons, and scoped with quality detachable rings may work for you though. Good luck with your decision. :)
 
dizzy said:
I don't understand this rational, running a marathon with sandals is a very good way to learn to run, but sure a hell of a lot more comfortable to do so in New Balance, your feet will hurt less, and you will run faster, same with scopes. why would you shoot with irons when you don't have too? The best way to teach a kid to shoot is to put a good scope on a 22, and teach him all the fundamentals of shooting, once the kid can shoot then take the scope off and teach them to shoot with irons by this time they know how to handle the gun steady the gun and will be able to line up the irons a lot more easily and have to worry much less about everything else. They learn better, and faster. Old school is not always the best school.
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Aw. I hate to do it, but dizzy, I'm gonna have to disagree on this.

Start new shooters with peep sights or open sights, because they can actually concentrate on the fundamentals, rather than trying to yank the trigger at the moment the crosshairs are on the target. I find, more often than not, that someone taught without optics will have a MUCH better grasp of trigger control, hold, and follow through, simply because (I think) they aren't preoccupied with the crosshairs wandering on the target. Teach someone to get into a neutral position, squeeze the trigger, and follow through, and the rest will follow. Give them a scope later, when they've learned that trying to muscle it into position and jerk the trigger when it all lines up ain't gonna work.
 
Acm no worries mate. The fundamentals of shooting are hitting your target more often than not and what works for some does not work for all. Some of the best shooters I have seen would make you cringe. And. Irons are pretty old technology, there are much better aiming systems that make shooting more fun, however for me I get the most pleasure out of shooting my walther lgr with peep sights. All I am saying is not everyone needs to be trained the same way in my unknowledgeable opinion.
 
It's true, not everyone needs to be trained the same way. I learned with a single pump pneumatic air pistol with iron sights at age 4. When I learned to shoot a rifle, it was with a single shot .22 with irons, and every saturday i would blow a whole brick of 22s down the range, sitting at the bench, shooting from a rest at paper targets.

My son is a totally different story. I tried him with a pump 22 from a rest, and he really wasn't into that. Shooting with irons, he was a little put off by the wait between shots because i had to pump the rifle for him. He lost interest after a short time, and was frustrated with having to take multiple shots to hit pop cans and such. It didn't help that he's pretty little (5) and couldn't work the action himself. I switched him to my nylon 66 with a 4 power scope, and things changed. Now, instead of being disheartened that his shot wasn't on paper and getting disinterested, he's excited that he's hitting a target, and trying to do better with each shot. Even though i'm still right there, he can help load up and doesn't need me to work the action after every shot. He likes this a lot better. After having him shoot with a scope for a bit, I noticed he was a lot more controlled and paid more attention to the sights, and shot a lot better with irons than initially.

It all comes down to what you're comfortable with, and if your gear fits your situation. For 100-200 yard shots on possible moving animals, i'd want a low power scope, maybe a 3-9 or a fixed x6. For pushing the bush, i want a good set of iron sights which will work well out to 100 yards. My old man's partial to peep sights.
 
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