Optics Review for the newer Precision Shooter

shell_guy said:
If you plan to shoot at 600+ then FFP scopes become an issue. At 1000m the reticle in a FFP scope completely covers a 12" by 12" steel plate. I am not the greatest shooter but I sure as hell can't hit something that I can't see.
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A thick reticle (like the 0.04 mil reticle on the Vortex/SWFA) will cover 4cm at 1000m, not 12". Higher end reticles like the PR Heritage are fine in the center and measure 0.025 mil, so 2.5cm at 1000m.

I couldn't let that slide :/
 
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Haagen_Dazs said:
A thick reticle (like the 0.04 mil reticle on the Vortex/SWFA) will cover 4cm at 1000m, not 12". Higher end reticles like the PR Heritage are fine in the center and measure 0.025 mil, so 2.5cm at 1000m.

I couldn't let that slide :/
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My Viper FFP would almost over the gong that I was aiming at, this is purely based on experience and not on science. The folks at ATRS will tell you the same.
 
Reticle dependent. It isn't the case for all FFP scopes. I use 1" dots as my aiming point at 300 yards when load testing with my Premier.

From their specification:

gen2_xr.jpg


The thickness of the reticle ('K') is 0.075" at 100 yards. That's 3/4" at 1000 yards.


300 yards, 3"x6" plate:
25x.JPG


1125 yards, IPSC target:
IMG_4168.JPG

You can easily put those crosshairs in the middle of the 6" head and see white in all four quadrants.
 
Haagen_Dazs

What were the reasons you decided to purchase an SWFA scope to replace your Vortex

Did you go with FFP or SFP, what mag and reticle

I am leaning towards a Sightron but this is a big purchase for me and want to get all the info I can

Did you by chance do any research on the Sightron line yourself after the Vortex scope didn't work out for you
 
My first 3 scopes were Sightrons, 2 SIIs and an SIII 8-32x56mm. I love Sightrons and because of them I'd never be able to justify buying a Nightforce. I wanted FFP so my 4th scope was a Vortex PST 6-24x50 and I loved everything about it except for the turret tracking issues. After sending the scope back in for warranty work, Scott at Vortex told me it's not broken, but all Vortex optics track that way (even the Razer line), so I looked for a replacement FFP.

I found SWFA reviews online; they were all outstanding. Lots of comparison to Vortex as well as some people doing tracking tests with them (with good results). I purchased an SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 and have still not found the time to do a comparison between it and the Vortex. I sold my Vortex 6-24 but bought a 4-16 for my M14 but have been trapped in the prairies on training and can't get the comparison done. I've also purchased a Premier Reticle Heritage 5-25x56.

The SWFA that I have has "HD" glass (high density). This is the same lens technology in PR, S&B, Vortex's high end 'Razor' line, as well as all other high end scopes. The technology enhances image clarity and light transmission and for an MSRP of $1250, the SWFA is the cheapest scope I've found that includes HD glass. There's some more food for thought. Like I said, I've been wanting to do a comparison but the SWFA is back in BC :/
 
Thanks to the OP for the reviews of the various scopes you wrote your evaluations on. The initial reviews go back a few years, so I'm not to sure how much has changed since then.

Yet I'd like to give LR shooting a good effort. I wouldn't be starting with a super expensive custom built LR Rifle. But rather something like a 300 WSM that I already have that shoots quite well. With more typical hunting rig set-ups, I've experienced successful hunts out from 250 to 600 yards. And a lot of practice is probably what made these hunts successful. So my starting point would be to focus on a good scope for that rifle. The older Bushnell and Bosh & Lomb scopes are more or less long gone commodities. But the Sightron SIII 6-24 x 50 LRMOA looks like it would do the job. For now though I'll ponder the possibilities till I get the itch to get the right scope for the task at hand.
 
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albertacoyotecaller said:
I will ask as others have. Any reviews for Swarovski, Zeiss or Premier. I am ready to drop some coin and thinking S&B but want some other choices.

thanks
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For me hands down for F class if you have a deep pockets is March
8x‐80x 56mm
10 times zoom ratios.
Focus to 10m
34mm main tube design
56mm objective lens diameter
60 MOA of elevation and 40 MOA of windage adjustment. One turn on the turret equals 10 MOA
Side focus/parallax adjustment. Long eye relief.
Tactical turrets with zero set facility
56mm front lens with superb Japanese glass, ED technology
Choice of traditional wire reticles, X hair or dot
Choice of illuminated or non illuminated glass etched reticles
Supplied with 3" Sunshade, Leather and plastic lens covers
Optional 56mm MD disc available
Reticles: 1/16, 3/32, 1/8th dot, Illuminated or non illuminated MTR‐1 or MTR‐2. MTR-3, MTR-4 glass etched reticles.
MML reticle available on special order.
Silver body available for extra $150.00





























ITEM (Low) (High)
Magnification 8x 80x
Effective Lens Diameter - 56mm
Body Tube Diameter 34mm
Exit Pupil - 0.7mm
Field of View, real 2.5° 0.25°
Eye Relief 89-95mm 83-97mm
1 Click Adjustment 1/8MOA
Elevation Travel 60MOA
Windage Travel 40MOA
Focus Side Focus / Parallax
Distance 10YD-infinity
Finish Matte Black
Reticle Cross-hair,1/8dot,3/32dot,1/16dot
MTR-2,MTR-1

Total Length (-1D) 407mm
Weight 845g (29.8oz)









Dimensions
























8x-80x56

A 407mm (16.0inch)
B 175mm (6.9inch)
C 64mm (2.5inch)
D 41mm (1.6inch)
E 144mm (5.7inch)
F 88mm (3.5inch)
G 79mm (3.1inch)
H 60mm (2.4inch)



























Reticles
 
Thanks...I was actually going to start a thread seeking scope help for a newbie when I spotted this sticky. Very helpful.
 
One more point...This review was written in 2011 and things have probably changed...I could find Sightron scope advertised only on one site in Canada. Tomochan...time to update your recommendations?
 
1MOA said:
One more point...This review was written in 2011 and things have probably changed...I could find Sightron scope advertised only on one site in Canada. Tomochan...time to update your recommendations?
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Definitely especially in the pricing and availability depts
 
Tomochan, took the time to read all this sticky, this is superb work, bringing a no nonsense evalution of those scopes, and i agree on almost all your findings...
You are so right, if you start to mount S&B on your rifles, it will be very hard to go back to any of the other makes, the spoiling will just get to you... Thanks for this great review ... JP.
 
Some up to date thoughts (new scopes only - if you can buy used quality then do so ):

Low end (sub $250): There is no real difference between made in China no-name and made in China with a recognised name. QC is all over with some very good and some appalling. I recently saw two 100% fake Leupolds that were really good ( yes, really ) with reasonable glass and good - repeatable - tracking. So nice I bought them and put them on 22.'s but I also recently saw a ZOS that had the reticle canted 20 degrees and turrets that were just for decoration so, honestly, it is a crap shoot.

Middle ($250 -$750): There is the traditional and very solid Bushnell Tactical 10x ( old Elite 3200 ). At under $300 retail this is the absolute value buy in fixed 10X and is perfect for the M14 and such like. There is also the very good Bushnell Legend HD - I have on on my 30-06 hunting rig and it is an excellent scope for the money. The Vortex are popular in this price range though, personally, I don't like them too much but they have the best warranty in the business. Burris come into play here as well - they make good scopes and also have a good warranty. In this price range stick with the basics and avoid the temptation to go with loads of features as something has to be compromised to make the price point.

Mid-high ($750-$1500) In this category many shooters consider the better Vortex like the Viper PST and they do offer lots of features for the dollar. Personally, I think the Sightron Siii to be the dominant player here with their 8-32x56 to be the absolute gem. I've not seen the new and lower priced NF but they ought to be looked at as should the Bushnell Elite. For the target shooting crowd a NF BR would be the pick at the top of this price range.

High end ($1500+) For me, S+B, and NF are the top considerations here and in that order. For those who are fans of Vortex there is the Razor and for the Leupold crowd there is the famed Mk4 ( I have a 8.5-25x50 and it is probably the pick of Leupold's litter as far as I am concerned ) which is dated but still works. The high end Bushnell Tactical 3-21 which I recently reviewed here is also something to consider. This is a big price range section and my first choice (S+B) is well over twice the price of some other scopes in the range so buyers will have to decide upon relative value.

Hope that helps.
 
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