optimal barrel length and loads for the .44RM

[kodiakjack]

prove it

I don’t quite understand why you seem to be having difficulty with this...

Obviously there comes a point where friction with the barrel outweighs the pressure behind the bullet and it slows down. Especially with faster burning powders and lighter loads. The extreme of which would be a squib. (Not enough energy to push the bullet out of the barrel) But in this case, it’s just not enough energy to continually accelerate the bullet until it exits the barrel, so it will naturally start slowing down after reaching its peak speed.

You can see this starting to happen in the BBTI link above for 44 at just 18 inches. Beyond that, as Gatehouse said, you can expect the trend to continue. It’s even more pronounced in weaker chamberings like .25 below:


http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/44magspeer200gdsb.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/earlycharts/25autowinchester50fmj.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/45autocorbon200jhp.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/45autofederal230his.html

 

[Gatehouse]

prove it

Supply me with a 36" barrel 44 magnum firearm, and I will be happy to document the results.

 

[todbartell]

I don’t quite understand why you seem to be having difficulty with this...

Obviously there comes a point where friction with the barrel outweighs the pressure behind the bullet and it slows down. Especially with faster burning powders and lighter loads. The extreme of which would be a squib. (Not enough energy to push the bullet out of the barrel) But in this case, it’s just not enough energy to continually accelerate the bullet until it exits the barrel, so it will naturally start slowing down after reaching its peak speed.

You can see this starting to happen in the BBTI link above for 44 at just 18 inches. Beyond that, as Gatehouse said, you can expect the trend to continue. It’s even more pronounced in weaker chamberings like .25 below:


http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/44magspeer200gdsb.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/earlycharts/25autowinchester50fmj.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/45autocorbon200jhp.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/graphs/45autofederal230his.html

Odd that the 22LR didn't lose any speed from 16 to 18", just gains. That website's results are erratic at best, likely due to errors in their ability to accurately measure velocity, and a small sample size of rounds tested for each length

 

[todbartell]

44 mag is great out of a large frame revolver at short range but highly overrated in a carbine IMHO

That's funny as 150 yard retained velocity from a 16.5" carbine rifle is more than a pistol generates at the muzzle. Maybe barrel length has nothing to do with ballistics though

  [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Average[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1795.93[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1808.01[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1783.94[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.07[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.93[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shot ID[/TD]
[TD]V0[/TD]
[TD]V50[/TD]
[TD]V100[/TD]
[TD]V150[/TD]
[TD]V200[/TD]
[TD]V250[/TD]
[TD]Ke0[/TD]
[TD]Ke50[/TD]
[TD]Ke100[/TD]
[TD]Ke150[/TD]
[TD]Ke200[/TD]
[TD]Ke250[/TD]
[TD]PF50[/TD]
[TD]Proj. Weight[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1784[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1576[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1398[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1258[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1695[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1322[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1041[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]842[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]378.24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:24:53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1798[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1591[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1413[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1271[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1721[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1348[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1064[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]860[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]381.84[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1808[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1594[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1451[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1741[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1353[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1122[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]382.56[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1794[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1587[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1407[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1715[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1342[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1054[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]380.88[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:54[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[kodiakjack]

Odd that the 22LR didn't lose any speed from 16 to 18", just gains. That website's results are erratic at best, likely due to errors in their ability to accurately measure velocity, and a small sample size of rounds tested for each length

What does the “R” in “22LR” stand for?

 

[todbartell]

What does the “R” in “22LR” stand for?

22 short velocity was higher in 18" than any other length too. Results very comparable to CCI Stingers... laughing

 

[kodiakjack]

That's funny as 150 yard retained velocity from a 16.5" carbine rifle is more than a pistol generates at the muzzle. Maybe barrel length has nothing to do with ballistics though

  [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Average[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1795.93[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1808.01[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1783.94[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.07[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.93[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shot ID[/TD]
[TD]V0[/TD]
[TD]V50[/TD]
[TD]V100[/TD]
[TD]V150[/TD]
[TD]V200[/TD]
[TD]V250[/TD]
[TD]Ke0[/TD]
[TD]Ke50[/TD]
[TD]Ke100[/TD]
[TD]Ke150[/TD]
[TD]Ke200[/TD]
[TD]Ke250[/TD]
[TD]PF50[/TD]
[TD]Proj. Weight[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1784[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1576[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1398[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1258[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1695[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1322[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1041[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]842[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]378.24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:24:53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1798[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1591[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1413[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1271[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1721[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1348[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1064[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]860[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]381.84[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1808[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1594[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1451[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1741[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1353[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1122[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]382.56[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1794[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1587[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1407[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1715[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1342[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1054[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]380.88[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]240[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: center"]########[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15:25:54[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I can’t tell if you’re being serious now, or taking the piss...



Help me out here... Do you actually believe that there isn’t a point where barrel length begins to slow the bullet back down?

 

[hoytcanon]

Apparently winter "cabin fever" season has arrived...

 

[Mr. Friendly]

seems we need to get someone with an Pro Hunter and 28" barrel and saw it back an inch at a time after testing so we have some modern data. LoL!

 

[todbartell]

Help me out here... Do you actually believe that there isn’t a point where barrel length begins to slow the bullet back down?

in a 44 magnum, within typical sporting lengths (28" or less) no

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

All this .44 mag stuff is giving me the urge for another fun thumper like me former Ruger 77/44 stainless.

This new model looks peachy for launching hardcast boolits.

 

[kodiakjack]

in a 44 magnum, within typical sporting lengths (28" or less) no

With a good, hot load? You’re right.

With a readily available factory or mild hand load? You’re wrong.

 

[kc34]

in a 44 magnum, within typical sporting lengths (28" or less) no

With a good, hot load? You’re right.

With a readily available factory or mild hand load? You’re wrong.

I think that is the right answer KJ.
A hot load made for a rifle is certainly going to make far more use of the extra barrel length than a mild pistol load is.

 

[todbartell]

So then the OP will be fine with any barrel length rifle he decides on for his 44 mag carbine. He didn't specify handloads or factory, but a 35,000psi load of LilGun, H110 or Win 296 will give the fastest velocity. Ramshot Enforcer is close, but trails behind the other three. As for brisk factory 44 Mag ammo, the stuff I have shot in front of my doppler radar are behind what a handload can do, sometimes way behind. An exception is the 240gr American Eagle load - it's fast - not sure how stoutly constructed that bullet is. I just picked up a box to shoot and use it as a benchmark to compare a 240gr Handload to. So far my H110 handloads haven't exceeded 1640 fps.

Federal 240gr American Eagle does 1795 fps / 1720 ft-lbs energy.

Factory Hornady 225gr FTX ammo does 1720 fps from my Marlin. That's 1480 ft lbs of muzzle energy.

Hornady 300gr XTP factory does 1300 fps / 1125 ft lbs energy

I don't have the HSM 305gr Bear Load details in front of me, but I recall it being in the 1200 fps range from my 16.5" barrel

I'm sure any of the ammo on the market, or any handload will yield desirable results on game at 100 yards or closer from any rifle barrel length

 

[Mr. Friendly]

yes, I think I will handload.

not knowing the terminology, but the 77/44 has two new models that have a slight flare at the muzzle. doesn't appear to be a compensator...so what does that provide?

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

So then the OP will be fine with any barrel length rifle he decides on for his 44 mag carbine. He didn't specify handloads or factory, but a 35,000psi load of LilGun, H110 or Win 296 will give the fastest velocity. Ramshot Enforcer is close, but trails behind the other three. As for brisk factory 44 Mag ammo, the stuff I have shot in front of my doppler radar are behind what a handload can do, sometimes way behind. An exception is the 240gr American Eagle load - it's fast - not sure how stoutly constructed that bullet is. I just picked up a box to shoot and use it as a benchmark to compare a 240gr Handload to. So far my H110 handloads haven't exceeded 1640 fps.

Federal 240gr American Eagle does 1795 fps / 1720 ft-lbs energy.

Factory Hornady 225gr FTX ammo does 1720 fps from my Marlin. That's 1480 ft lbs of muzzle energy.

Hornady 300gr XTP factory does 1300 fps / 1125 ft lbs energy

I don't have the HSM 305gr Bear Load details in front of me, but I recall it being in the 1200 fps range from my 16.5" barrel

I'm sure any of the ammo on the market, or any handload will yield desirable results on game at 100 yards or closer from any rifle barrel length

Ye be right on that fer the most part. I'd go the 300+ gr hardcast @ 1500 fps route meself for all game & pest hunting chores inside 100 yds. to keep things
simple, yet amply potent when out in the field.

I avoid the high speed, jacketed light bullet loads like the Remington 180 gr. loads on meat critters as they be a tad messy with poor penetration.
Fun for night shoots from a short barrel though.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

yes, I think I will handload.

not knowing the terminology, but the 77/44 has two new models that have a slight flare at the muzzle. doesn't appear to be a compensator...so what does that provide?

Provides for fitting a suppressor or brake & looks good to boot.

 

[todbartell]

it's flared out to the proper diameter for their 11/16"-24 threaded muzzle. Attach flash hider, muzzle brake or suppressor

 

[Mr. Friendly]

it does look good, that's for sure. the rifle is also light at 5.2lbs, so can't complain about that either!

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Just to note, I single load rounds in the 300 gr range with the 77/44 due to the length of the rotary magazine which be too short for boolits beyond 265 gr unless
ye deep seat 'em. No worries for folks that stalk or shoot from a hide though.