Optimal Charge Weight

Wally said:
Found this website http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/# the other day while looking for .308 recipes. Just wondering if anyone else has seen it and what people think about it.

I sure makes sense to me and I may start using the round robin load testing method.
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That is essentially what I've been doing since I started loading, and I've never read that article before. I thought about it alot, and it made sense for me to do it that way.

I mentioned this technique in a thread a year ago and a couple ol' guys said that we should be shooting at least 3 shots at all the minimum charges working up. I think it is a waste of my time and bullets to do so, and said just that. I don't care how the minimum charges group in my rifles, as I have no intentions in hunting with minimum loads. Sometimes people can't think outside the box...
 
blargon said:
That is essentially what I've been doing since I started loading, and I've never read that article before. I thought about it alot, and it made sense for me to do it that way.

I mentioned this technique in a thread a year ago and a couple ol' guys said that we should be shooting at least 3 shots at all the minimum charges working up. I think it is a waste of my time and bullets to do so, and said just that. I don't care how the minimum charges group in my rifles, as I have no intentions in hunting with minimum loads. Sometimes people can't think outside the box...
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It sure wasn't me that was critical of you!
I too, use one shot at a time to work up to my pressure level until near top loads, when I use repeat shots. I said that on here and I too, was severely taken to task for it.
 
H4831 said:
It sure wasn't me that was critical of you!
I too, use one shot at a time to work up to my pressure level until near top loads, when I use repeat shots. I said that on here and I too, was severely taken to task for it.
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No sir, it certainly was not you.;)
 
The OCW method is a form of doing a ladder method. We've discussed ladder methods lots of times here. I've been using it for years, don't even bother to shoot a group until I've done a ladder method.

I've posted lots of pics of targets with a ladder method, I am sure if you do a search on "ladder method" some info will appear for you!:)
 
I used to pick a powder/bullet combo and then work through 3 shot groups of increasing volume until I had something that looked good. A lot really depended on my shooting skill as much as the load. Get in the zone and nail a good group but I could easily ruin the best load with loosy shooting and blame it on the load.

A couple of years ago I began using the ladder method and found this really zeroed in on the potential loads I should be concentrating on. I have just worked up new loads for a .22/250 and a .300 WSM using the O.C.W. method and found it even better.

I'm convinced that both methods give me better results using less components than the old book method.
 
Ruger No.1 said:
I used to pick a powder/bullet combo and then work through 3 shot groups of increasing volume until I had something that looked good. A lot really depended on my shooting skill as much as the load. Get in the zone and nail a good group but I could easily ruin the best load with loosy shooting and blame it on the load.

A couple of years ago I began using the ladder method and found this really zeroed in on the potential loads I should be concentrating on. I have just worked up new loads for a .22/250 and a .300 WSM using the O.C.W. method and found it even better.

I'm convinced that both methods give me better results using less components than the old book method.
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So using the OCW method do you load 3rnds per charge weight? Sounds like that's what it recommends... except that the targets should be shot round robin style.
 
I was halfway through my load developpement for my xcr tactical long range.
This seems promising, I will try that!
 
Wally said:
So using the OCW method do you load 3rnds per charge weight? Sounds like that's what it recommends... except that the targets should be shot round robin style.
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No it recommends only shooting 1 round per charge weight at the minimum end and then shooting 3 rounds as you reach book max. Like I said, if I'm looking for decent velocity for hunting for a .308 with Varget and a 165gr, I'd shoot like this:

42gr - 1 shot, check case
43gr - 1 shot, check
44gr - 1 shot, check
44.5gr - 1 shot, check
45gr - 3 shots, check cases
45.5gr - 3 shots, check cases
46gr - 3 shots, check cases

I don't shoot groups at the low end, because I know the velocity won't be where I want it for hunting, so I don't care how they group. Likely I would use the same target until I got to the 3 shot groups.
 
Found the article interesting. I suspect most of us use some method like this and that most of us are aware of the idea's behind barrel vibration as well. What I don't understand from his analysis is why I get two or even three accuracy nodes across the range of testing I do. (I often test across a wide range loads.) The other thing that occurs to me, and one of the reasons I test a wide range of loads, is that deciding what your optimum load is has to consider intended application. There are applications where you want the most accurate load with the lowest recoil as in some forms of target competition. In my silhouette rifles, for example, I usually tested a wide range of loads and chose the lightest load that was accurate. Not taking anything away from the article. Like I say, it's interesting. I might try testing this way with a hunting rifle if I ever get a new one. The loads I have been using are so old they have created grooves in my shell holder. Come to think of it my rifle and I are about the same:). Always nice to run into a new wrinkle.
 
Her eis a ladder method, which I usually use

3 shots, 3 powder charges

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14 shots, 14 powder charges

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Round Robin style. The first target is a low powder charge, very accurate, but not enough velocity.

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BCFred said:
What I don't understand from his analysis is why I get two or even three accuracy nodes across the range of testing I do. (I often test across a wide range loads.) The other thing that occurs to me, and one of the reasons I test a wide range of loads, is that deciding what your optimum load is has to consider intended application. .
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I also have found that some of my guns have up to 3 "accuracy nodes". As I understand it, the vibrations travel down the barrel like a wave. Depending on your load you create a different distance (frequency) between the tops (nodes) of the waves. If the load you are using consistently places this node at a sweet spot on your barrel, you have the potential for a good group.

Sometimes this doesn't necessarily meet the intentions of your load. In other words, it may not be "optimum" for the goal you are trying to achieve. For example, I like to do lots of practice using field type holds with my hunting rifles. In my hunting loads I always use premium bullets such as TSX's or Partition's both of which cost considerably more than Ballistic Tips or Interlocks. I have used a ladder (and on my last two workups the O.C.W.) to get my hunting groups and then play with the cheap bullets to get them to the same P.O.I. These loads are seldom as accurate as my hunting loads but for practice purposes are more than acceptable. As you have pointed out there are many other applications where O.C.W. may not be what you want (ie. reduced recoil loads for kids) but sometimes one of the lower "nodes" may help you fill this function.
 
blargon said:
No it recommends only shooting 1 round per charge weight at the minimum end and then shooting 3 rounds as you reach book max.
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I'm going to start using this method. If I told you guys how many bullets and much powder I have wasted working up loads you would know I was retarded.
:redface:
 
Wally said:
So using the OCW method do you load 3rnds per charge weight? Sounds like that's what it recommends... except that the targets should be shot round robin style.
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Yes - five weights - five targets, one shot at each weight at each target, let cool, five shots one at each weight at each target... one more time then have 3 rounds of same weight on each target. Then overlay the targets, find the one in the middle of POI. Then have charge that is the least affected by changes in charge weight (temperature or other conditions that affect pressure).

Technical article http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm

blargon said:
No it recommends only shooting 1 round per charge weight at the minimum end and then shooting 3 rounds as you reach book max.
Click to expand...

Seems more like ladder method or way to ensure that not exceeding maximum load before starting OCW method.
 
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