ORA CQBm8 - AAR and Stats

Bolivar

Bolivar

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
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Location
Outside Barrie ON, Native to South Shore of NS
27 hardy CQB participants stood up the seasonal wet weather and enjoyed a match at CFB Borden. Their kit and score cards were damp but their spirits were not. Smiles reported all around. Special thanks to staff for "enjoying" the weather with the shooters and especially Plink for stepping up on stats.

Next match November 30th. Put your woolies on.
 
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Stats

hps 550 "Master" Class
1st 446 rifleman
2nd 438 blinkblinknohero
3rd 437 ganderite
3rd 437 plink
433 imarco
429 theduck
427 tituspullo
418 mississaugagunnut
409 gs

"Operator" Class
1st 408 thorvald
1st 408 tactical teacher
2nd 402 kimkong
3rd 394 sd
394 diablo9845
384 browncow
378 tommyt
357 snafu84
355 norton-pr

"Rookie" Class
1st 354 at
2nd 351 robertill
3rd 350 defendertech
341 pg
329 telles75
325 commisar
320 mycroft
315 crusader556
293 dirtyfecker
 
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Another great day of shooting at Camp Borden. The wimps that cancelled out and slept in missed a wonderful day of shooting. There was a light drizzle all day that we hardly noticed. It did not turn cold until late in the match.

Today was our first experience with a change in the program. The transitions are now "cold" instead of "hot". Rifles are all cleared before shooting the pistol, which starts with a separate whistle blast. We hold the rifle in the aim, and then on the whistle, drop the rifle (which has been cleared), draw the pistol, rack the slide and shoot. Today we had 10 seconds for each event. That seemed like plenty of time for the rifle and called for some fast pistol work. I did manage to get all 10 rounds of my pistol fired, but only got 9 scoring hits.

I enjoy trying different guns in the CQB. I have no doubt my M&P 40 is my best pistol for the event and that my AR-15 is the best rifle, but it is good fun to take some other guns out for a day in the sun. I started the day with my Lee Enfield. I was surprised that I could almost get all my shots off (except for the modified prone). An accuracy was excellent. But I was using flat tipped cast bullets and they did not feed reliably enough to shoot in the scoring phases, so I switched back to my trusty old Norinco AR15. But I will try a Lee again. Next time will be iron sights, stripper clips and pointy FMJ bullets.

I thought I had made every conceivable mistake possible in a CQB match, but today I managed of new one. Lost one of my targets when the rifle would not fire. The rounds had been loaded in the mag backwards. My fault. I forgot to load the mag and someone else "helped" by loading it for me. I will be more attentive in the future.

But for that, I could have had a decent score. You kids are too young to remember the L'il Abner character, the general who always managed to snatch defeat from the mouth of victory. Call me "General #####-Up".

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Damn, wish I could have been there. Don't think Tim would have like it if on the line I drop everything and tried to run to the john on time! 3 days of this so far...
 
That was the most fun i've had shooting CQB so far. Thanks to Tim and the ARO's for makin' it another great day. I finally made it into the cool class. :D
 
Since many of our regular CQB shooters missed this match, they missed a small change in the program. The transitions are now "cold" instead of "hot". In my opinion this makes the rapid fire rifle slightly easier and the rapid fire pistol a bit more difficult, because you can't zip through the rifle shots to gain more time for the pistol.

For a "Cold " transition the two elements were split in half - 10 seconds for each. For the rifle, the shooter advances 5 yards on the whistle and fires his 10 shots in 10 seconds. This turned out to be fairly easy. The rifles are then all cleared, and after the line is clear, we start the pistol shoot. The shooter starts with his rifle in the aim, and on the whistle drops the rifle, draws and racks his pistol, and fires his 10 shots in 10 seconds. This is not easy, but it is doable.

Don't let the Lee Enfield in the movie confuse you. I usually shoot this event with an AR-15, but thought I would try a Lee Enfield for giggles.

This YouTube clip shows what a cold transition looks like in real time.

http://youtu.be/t_vZY9Wp_CE
 
Forcedair said:
Is your M&P stock? I was considering buying one, but held off after reading of a heavy trigger pull and mediocre accuracy.
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No, not stock. Accuracy out of the box was excellent, and the trigger was better than I expected (better than a stock Glock) but I had already ordered a Apex competition trigger kit for it, before it arrived. The Apex made it even better.

Out of the box it shot low, so I ordered the correct Dawson Precision fibre optic front sight for it. It was lower than stock (so gun would shoot higher) and narrower than stock) so my old eyes had more light to center it with.

I own a lot of pistols and have tried a dozen or so different ones in CQB. For whatever reason, this is the one that shoots best when I want to shoot accurately, quickly.

In the video you can see I shot a bit too fast on the second target and I only got 4 scoring hits on it, but in this video i was shooting as fast as I could, and accuracy was still good. With slow aimed fire, all 10 shots would be touching.

With each pistol I try a variety of bullets and powder charges to see what shoot best. This one did much better with 155 gr lead SWC bullets with 3.3gr of TiteGroup. A mild load with a bullet that I would not normally test, but I happened to have some left from an earlier project. The mild load helps when you want to shoot fast.

I also have a M&P9. It shoots almost as well as this M&P40. I have an Apex trigger and DP front sight on order for it. I am hoping I can get my daughter to shoot CQB with me. She really liked my 40 when she tried it. She can't have it, but would never know the 9 is not the same gun. Shhhh.
 
cmccu said:
As usual , thanx for the pictures Jim.
Your youtube clip made the pistol shooting look easy.
Scoring well would be the hard part.
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Most of the points I lose in a match are with pistol. I often don't get the required head shot, and I often don't get to fire the second mag because I run out of time.

I really need more CQB Pistol clinic time and CQB pistol shooting drills. I think almost all of us are in the same boat.
 
Ganderite said:
Most of the points I lose in a match are with pistol. I often don't get the required head shot, and I often don't get to fire the second mag because I run out of time.

I really need more CQB Pistol clinic time and CQB pistol shooting drills. I think almost all of us are in the same boat.
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Looks to me by the numbers, this method will mean higher scores. See what happens Nov 30. Then CQB withdrawls for the winter. But next season I'll be bringing a surprise :ar15:
 
Ganderite said:
No, not stock. Accuracy out of the box was excellent, and the trigger was better than I expected (better than a stock Glock) but I had already ordered a Apex competition trigger kit for it, before it arrived. The Apex made it even better.

Out of the box it shot low, so I ordered the correct Dawson Precision fibre optic front sight for it. It was lower than stock (so gun would shoot higher) and narrower than stock) so my old eyes had more light to center it with.



I own a lot of pistols and have tried a dozen or so different ones in CQB. For whatever reason, this is the one that shoots best when I want to shoot accurately, quickly.

In the video you can see I shot a bit too fast on the second target and I only got 4 scoring hits on it, but in this video i was shooting as fast as I could, and accuracy was still good. With slow aimed fire, all 10 shots would be touching.

With each pistol I try a variety of bullets and powder charges to see what shoot best. This one did much better with 155 gr lead SWC bullets with 3.3gr of TiteGroup. A mild load with a bullet that I would not normally test, but I happened to have some left from an earlier project. The mild load helps when you want to shoot fast.

I also have a M&P9. It shoots almost as well as this M&P40. I have an Apex trigger and DP front sight on order for it. I am hoping I can get my daughter to shoot CQB with me. She really liked my 40 when she tried it. She can't have it, but would never know the 9 is not the same gun. Shhhh.
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Very helpful info. Thanks for posting.
 
The M&P has an interesting feature that you don't appreciate until you have to shoot against the clock. The slide releases when you seat a fresh magazine. if you watch the video again, you will see I don't pause to hit the slide release.

I have a H&K with the same feature, but have not seen it in others. I like it. One less thing to do, especially when my hands are cold and or wet.
 
Ganderite said:
The M&P has an interesting feature that you don't appreciate until you have to shoot against the clock. The slide releases when you seat a fresh magazine. if you watch the video again, you will see I don't pause to hit the slide release.
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Aha. I re-watched that section of the video about five times, to see where you hit the slide release on you way up back onto target, because it seemed so quick seamless and instant. Now I know! Seems like a good feature to have.
 
In my experience with my M&P and M&P Pro, the slides will almost invariably close when the magazine is seated. It seems to be more probable if the magazine is fully loaded. One should always be aware that the slide may not close automatically.
 
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