Original big bores shooting high

Casull

Casull

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I have a couple of original big bore rifles and they shoot very high at 100 yards. I know originally military rifles and handguns were meant to be high with the idea of hold on his belt and hit the enemy mid body.
What do you guys do to get these things hitting on at 100 yards? There must be an adaptor for the front sight or something like that. I don't want to modify the sights from original or vary the load from original a lot. I am thinking of building some sort of slip over front sight that maybe tightens with a set screw to the original front sight underneath or something like this. Any ideas.
I have an original Remington rolling block in .50/70 and an original Sharps Brochardt in .45/70. Both shoot well but very high. They have identical front sights with are low sweated on bases with brass blades in them. They are not dovetailed at all, so not easily changed. Both rifles shoot excellent groups and work on long range silhouettes and paper, but I would like to get a 100 yard zero.
This is also true of some original military 1800s handguns I own and shoot. My .44 1858 Remington and my 1871 Remington in .50 US Army both do exactly the same thing. They shoot very well and I enjoy them, but I would like to come up with a way to have them shoot to sights at 100 yards without my having to modify the original sights on my antique guns.
Ideas guys? I am sure others are facing the same issues.
 
tell me about it!
i have a danish rolling block in some obscure 11 point something that is approximately equal to 45/70. plunks tiny groups at 100 yards about 6" high. i have been told to take an old canadian dime and pound the snot out of it (or relive your child hood and put it on a train track):D
then you double it over, stick it on your front sight and head to the range with ammo and a file.
 
On my Danish 11.7 X 57R I put a tang sight and can get it down to shoot very nicely at 100 yards. My Original Borchardt is going to get the same treatment as soon as I decide which tang I want and how much I can afford.
Ken.
 
I was going to put a sight over the front sight base the same idea as you were talking about Rob on the Sharps. With the sight base the way it is it shouldn't be to hard to do.
On orginal guns I not a big fan of drilling holes this will take away from the value
John
 
The drilling of holes is what is keeping me away from the tang idea too. I just can't do that to my originals. And besides, the original front is just so tiny it would not be great anyway. I do have an original set up with a tang and it's just great, maybe if the tang was already drilled and tapped and I could fit something over the front, it would come close to your idea there. I need to find a train track I guess as soon as I can spare a penny, Christmas took it's toll
 
So: At what range will your shots strike the Point Of Aim with the appropriate sight setting?

Could you reload a bullet/propellant combination that would give you tight groups on the POA at one hundred?
 
The only trick i know of is to use a lighter bullet at higher velocity or get a higher front sight/lower rear sight.
 
Any owners of old revolvers out there experiencing the same thing?

I have an antique .44 Russian DA that shoots well, but POI is about 20" at 25 yards. This bugs me. I've thought about tapping out the pin that holds the front sight and re and re the front blade with a silver dime, with files and dremmel in tow.
One other fella I spoke to also has an antique Russian that shoots approx 20" high.

Any thoughts on building the front sight with out *permanently* affecting it?

Casull......... I hear you on not wanting to damage an old piece.
 
Tom, the standing original 100 yard sight is dead on at 325M. Like the 20" high revolver, this is normal for these old military guns, it was the logic of the day.
I doubt I could change the load enough to make this much difference. Some change, probably but I want to use effective loads. I am hoping to find a modification that will not permanently change or damage the original sights but somehow allows me to sight in at 100yards. The original rear sights are great too and well marked with ladders and so on for long range. The front sight is the issue, it just needs to be higher. any ideas on a clamp on apparatus of some sort?
The revolver problem is even worse as my 1858 has just a small brass cone for a front sight. It is a transition model made in 1862, some old model features, some new. The old model coming after the new model in this case. Please don't ask me to explain.
 
Well i got a Webley MKVI barrel that was shooting abit high but ya wont like what i did about it.
Well the front blades are held in with a screw so ya can make a higher blade and keep the orignal one.
This sight is for darker close range conditions. The blade could be made alot higher but with the bead ontop its perfect for what i wanted as my eyes aint so good anymore.

man is it ever easy to get on target even in very dark conditions with the fiber optic bead in there :D



Click on pics to enlarge


 
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well, i had the same prob with a 3 band snider, shoots way high at 100. hear is my fix. i used a #4 lee front site protector, and a #1 mk3 front site with the ring milled off. i then drilled a new hole through one side and taped the other side of the #4 site protector. i allso drilled a hole in the #1 site, and put a screw through them and squeeze it up onto the original site. it works great, is not permanant, and i didnt have to do anything to the original sites, or bbl.
it also , i might add, looks the part.
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Just an idea here:confused: but could new age BP be so much better quality than the old stuff as to make the guns shoot high??
With these big slow bullets it really doesn't take much to move point of impact.
 
Brian, that looks good, functional at least and not bad looking.
Senior, I don't think it's the new powder, all of the old military stuff was sighted to take an aim at the enemy's belt buckle and get a hit mid body. Just the way they fought then.
I did come up with a solution by the way. I found that the original brass blade would tap out of the old sight base without hurting anything. So, I took some brass plate to the milling maching and duplicated the blade only .5" higher. I left it very high to file to get whatever load I end up setting on sighted perfectly. I will file to height at the range and then final shape at home. Already it looks great and is solid as can be. I will get a picture and post it tomorrow. It basically looks like a brass square now but I will shape once I get the height on at the range. Pictures tomorrow. Thanks for the ideas. I will post a finished picture once I get it to the range and finish filling it to match the load.
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Alternate front sights is the only way to go....

I have heard it all....you cannot adjust your loads enough to overcome it. You cannot usually lower the rear sight either without modifying the rifle and DON'T do that! I have a number of Snider Enfields...Martini Hemrys and one lonely 1871 Mauser and they all shoot way too high at both 50 and 100 yards. It was the thinking of the day. It is all adjusted and overcome by using a higher front sight. There are many ingenious ones listed and illustrated on the "british Militaria" web page. I am away from home or could give you the site address. They have dedicated an area to this discussion and it is very informative. I also see a great idea in my latest copy of the "Backwoodsman" magazine. Send me an e-mail and I'll reply in a couple of days....Dave....<hurlbutc@rideau.net>
 
I shot the Sharps at the range today and filed it in for a dead center hold at 100M. The replacement blade works perfectly and now looks good too. It all took about an hour to do with figuring it out. A bead could be worked on or any type of blade you like and cost was next to nothing. I see more of these coming on my other originals.
 
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