Original US GI M14 Question

[rzmitch]

I'm new to this and was wondering if it still possible to get an original M14 as issued by the US Govt? (not a copy or a refurb)...If so, how much would that go for and could a guy find one in Canada?...sorry if that's a dumb question that everyone else knows the answer to, but I was wondering...

I also hear the Norc 14 is the best copy...is that true?
rzmitch

 

[B]

Are you grandfathered for automatic or converted automatic weapons? If not you are SOL. The Norinco M14 is a great gun.....for the price.

 

[Wendell]

The USGI receiver is prohibited. (I take it that you are not grandfathered.)

You could buy an all-original USGI M-14, have the parts removed (and the receiver left with the seller) and then have the USGI parts assembled to another (non-USGI) receiver. That is as close as you're going to get to a (legal and functional) USGI M-14.

Whether the Norinco is or is not the best copy is a matter of opinion. The opinion that matters is your own.

 

[BongoBob]

Original USGI M14s are capable of select fire...semi AND full auto. You would have to be grandfathered in 12(3) Converted Auto, or whatever class full auto is to own one.

 

[Splatter]

Or.... You could join the US Marines, qualify as a Designated Marksman and get shipped to the sandbox.
Of course you couldn't keep it; but you'd have it, perhaps for the rest of your life.

 

[rzmitch]

Now that...

Now that was a weird response for sure! My interest is purely historical and with respect for soldiers that used that weapon...
M

 

[Tehoke01]

Original USGI M14s are capable of select fire...semi AND full auto. You would have to be grandfathered in 12(3) Converted Auto, or whatever class full auto is to own one.

Or just move to Vermont and buy one...

...much easier than Paris Island and Iraq/Afghanistan for 4 years.

 

[tiriaq]

A commercial receiver with USGI parts assembled to it is the closest you will get to a M-14 - unless you want a welded solid paperweight dewat. If you have 12(3) on your licence, you could get a CA, but as things stand now, you could not shoot it.
A Norinco receiver will readily accept genuine parts, and the surplus Chinese parts can be sold to offset the cost. This is probably the most cost effective way to get as close as possible to the real thing.
Of course, a Chinese clone is a pretty good substitute as is, and the price is right.

 

[t-star]

Original USGI M14s are capable of select fire...semi AND full auto. You would have to be grandfathered in 12(3) Converted Auto, or whatever class full auto is to own one.

YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT IS WRONG- the m14 as issued to the average
gi IS NOT CAPABLE OF AUTOMATIC FIRE- as it LEAVES THE FACTORY it is semi-auto only, with the SELECTOR LOCK covering the spindle that allows it to FIRE FULL AUTO- there is a BAG WITH PARTS WITH IT that is attached to the trigger guard - when the rifle arrives in its bag in the wooden box, it goes FIRST to the battalion armourer, who does an inspection and REMOVES SAID BAG or INSTALLS THE PARTS ACCORDING TO BATTALION COMMANDER- in other words IT'S THE HIGH HIGHS that DETERMINE WHETHER THE RIFLE IS CAPABLE OF FULL AUTO OR NOT and, after the m60 became common issue, VERY FEW select fires were issued- moreover, we got ours from isreal, who GROUND OFF the junction BETWEEN THE RECEIVER AND THE TRIGGER GROUP , AND WELDED THE SPINDLE SO IT CAN'T MOVE- THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE ISREALI GUNS TO BECOME SELECTIVE FIRE- and the parts baggies that were surplussed are also on the sked of parts which can't be exported out of the us- THE ONLY REASON THE M14 IS LISTED AS A SELECTIVE FIRE ( CLASS 3 IN THE STATES) IS BECAUSE THE BATF SAYS SO , AND THAT'S WHY CANADA MADE IT A CONVERTED AUTO
THE LATE DAVE TOMLINSON was argueing this before the courts just before he passed on

 

[t-star]

Or just move to Vermont and buy one...

...much easier than Paris Island and Iraq/Afghanistan for 4 years.

you'll get the same as what we get up here as long as you're a civvy- something built on a commercial receiver or a m1a
THE REAL M14 IS NOT AVAILABLE TO CIVILIANS UNLESS THEY HAVE A CLASS THREE BATF LICENSE-then the last listing i saw was about 10 grand

 

[tiriaq]

Was it the Israelis who altered the rifles while they were still issue rifles and held in stores, or were they altered when surplussed to facilitate commercial sale?
Incidentally, not all Israeli M-14s were altered as you have described.
As far as status and acceptabliltiy are concerned, consider the VZ 58 etc. situation. The brand new, never assembled as rifles, receivers would support installation of selective fire components. The receivers on rifles imported into Canada have been altered to prevent assembly with selective fire components, and the rifles are restricted or non-restricted depending on barrel length.
I can appreciate the argument about the M-14 not being originally assembled and issued as selective fire. The results from a court challenge would be interesting. I wonder if NFA has any plans on pursuing it.

 

[johnone]

RZMICH;
If you are grandfathered I have a couple of M-14s that might interest you.
John

 

[t-star]

the THREE i have- and every other one i saw were-it might BE that little goodies was removed prior to being brought into this country , but it also says in DIFFERENT's book amongst others that certain M14S HAD THEIR SELECTOR SWITCHES WELDED SHUT- ie national match and others, just the same as certain M1AS had SELECT FIRE COMPONENTS INSTALLED- these are well docmumented
as far as the court challenge is concerned, i don't know whether DAT actually got to argue, or got it in front of the judge, or got a ruling- obviously it either went against us or died with him, as our m14sare still safe queens- blair hagen would be better informed on that- if it never got in front of the judge, it would have to be a FAR better orator than i to argue it
as far as the

 

[tiriaq]

USNM rifles had their selector locks welded. I do not know if the Israelis did this to their service rifles as a matter of course, while they were still in service with them. I have observed variations in the way that ex-Israeli CAs were altered. Perhaps it depended on who was doing what, when.

 

[Tehoke01]

you'll get the same as what we get up here as long as you're a civvy- something built on a commercial receiver or a m1a
THE REAL M14 IS NOT AVAILABLE TO CIVILIANS UNLESS THEY HAVE A CLASS THREE BATF LICENSE-then the last listing i saw was about 10 grand

AFAIK and according to the BATF website anyone living in a state that allows it can obtain a Full Auto/Select Fire (NFA classed firearm) as long as they fill out the appropriate paperwork and pass a background check.

Also, from what I've found you CAN own a fully functional M14 in Vermont, there is no law in vermont that restricts firearms at all - the only laws that regulate firearm ownership in Vermont are federal laws...

...yes there is paperwork and the rifle will cost you plenty, but you can get one.

The "Class 3" license you are talking about is for dealers and it is required to transfer across state lines, the end buyer must go through the dealer if purchasing out of state.

Please correct any mistakes I've made but please tell me where you found your info as well.

 

[t-star]

AFAIK and according to the BATF website anyone living in a state that allows it can obtain a Full Auto/Select Fire (NFA classed firearm) as long as they fill out the appropriate paperwork and pass a background check.

Also, from what I've found you CAN own a fully functional M14 in Vermont, there is no law in vermont that restricts firearms at all - the only laws that regulate firearm ownership in Vermont are federal laws...

...yes there is paperwork and the rifle will cost you plenty, but you can get one.

The "Class 3" license you are talking about is for dealers and it is required to transfer across state lines, the end buyer must go through the dealer if purchasing out of state.

Please correct any mistakes I've made but please tell me where you found your info as well.

you can own one as far as the batf is concerned, provided there are no state laws against it, you pay your 200 buck transfer tax and you get your local law to sign off on it- but most people don't know that/don't want to be bothered, and good luck finding one- and the same nfa rules apply as a full auto- from time to time you see rears and forwards come up for sale but good luck getting the metallurgy right to do a re-weld

 

[BongoBob]

YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT IS WRONG- the m14 as issued to the average
gi IS NOT CAPABLE OF AUTOMATIC FIRE- as it LEAVES THE FACTORY it is semi-auto only, with the SELECTOR LOCK covering the spindle that allows it to FIRE FULL AUTO- there is a BAG WITH PARTS WITH IT that is attached to the trigger guard - when the rifle arrives in its bag in the wooden box, it goes FIRST to the battalion armourer, who does an inspection and REMOVES SAID BAG or INSTALLS THE PARTS ACCORDING TO BATTALION COMMANDER- in other words IT'S THE HIGH HIGHS that DETERMINE WHETHER THE RIFLE IS CAPABLE OF FULL AUTO OR NOT and, after the m60 became common issue, VERY FEW select fires were issued- moreover, we got ours from isreal, who GROUND OFF the junction BETWEEN THE RECEIVER AND THE TRIGGER GROUP , AND WELDED THE SPINDLE SO IT CAN'T MOVE- THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE ISREALI GUNS TO BECOME SELECTIVE FIRE- and the parts baggies that were surplussed are also on the sked of parts which can't be exported out of the us- THE ONLY REASON THE M14 IS LISTED AS A SELECTIVE FIRE ( CLASS 3 IN THE STATES) IS BECAUSE THE BATF SAYS SO , AND THAT'S WHY CANADA MADE IT A CONVERTED AUTO
THE LATE DAVE TOMLINSON was argueing this before the courts just before he passed on

I'll have to disagree with you there. It IS (was) capable of select fire as issued "if the parts it was issued with were installed",...it was still CAPABLE whether the parts were installed or not, as opposed to a Norinco or commercial variant (Springfield, LRB ect) or 12(3) converted auto for that matter that is NOT CAPABLE of select fire EVER. I think you just misunderstood my wording. I'm aware of the info you included in your post, and I'm sure many found it informative.

 

[t-star]

I'll have to disagree with you there. It IS (was) capable of select fire as issued "if the parts it was issued with were installed",...it was still CAPABLE whether the parts were installed or not, as opposed to a Norinco or commercial variant (Springfield, LRB ect) or 12(3) converted auto for that matter that is NOT CAPABLE of select fire EVER. I think you just misunderstood my wording. I'm aware of the info you included in your post, and I'm sure many found it informative.

ok define select fire- multiple rounds expended with ONE PULL OF THE TRIGGER
grab any m14 that doesn't have the kit installed - SEE THAT THERE IS NO INTERACTION BETWEEN THE TRIGGER ASSEMBLY AND THE RECEIVER- IT CANNOT EXPEND MULTIPLE ROUNDS WITHOUT THE KIT INSTALLED to HOLD THE HAMMER HOOKS BACK AND NOT ALLOW THE SEAR TO ENGAGE- i have both the norinco and m14 ( the real thing) the norc i have HAS HAMMER hooks but lacks the bits aft of the charging handle to go full auto- and the law says what it is, NOT WHAT IT'S CAPABLE OF- otherwise, ANY BOLT, PUMP, LEVER, OR WHATEVER IS "CAPABLE"- bill ruger, no less, turned a savage 99 into full auto- and that's documented -
it's the Knowledge that one has that determines the capabilities of the rifle- any ex-gi that has used /been issued /slept with/etc could turn any m14 action into something capable-just like our guys with the fnc1 etc

 

[t-star]

I'll have to disagree with you there. It IS (was) capable of select fire as issued "if the parts it was issued with were installed",...it was still CAPABLE whether the parts were installed or not, as opposed to a Norinco or commercial variant (Springfield, LRB ect) or 12(3) converted auto for that matter that is NOT CAPABLE of select fire EVER. I think you just misunderstood my wording. I'm aware of the info you included in your post, and I'm sure many found it informative.

ok define select fire- multiple rounds expended with ONE PULL OF THE TRIGGER
grab any m14 that doesn't have the kit installed - SEE THAT THERE IS NO INTERACTION BETWEEN THE TRIGGER ASSEMBLY AND THE RECEIVER- IT CANNOT EXPEND MULTIPLE ROUNDS WITHOUT THE KIT INSTALLED to HOLD THE HAMMER HOOKS BACK AND NOT ALLOW THE SEAR TO ENGAGE- i have both the norinco and m14 ( the real thing) the norc i have HAS HAMMER hooks but lacks the bits aft of the charging handle to go full auto- and the law says what it is, NOT WHAT IT'S CAPABLE OF- otherwise, ANY BOLT, PUMP, LEVER, OR WHATEVER IS "CAPABLE"- bill ruger, no less, turned a savage 99 into full auto- and that's documented - moreover , the last springfield i saw had HAMMER HOOKS on the trigger assembly- the new norincos don't

 

[t-star]

sorry for the multiple posts, guys - this computer musn't be recognising the edit feature - anyway, it all boils down to the bag, which was never issed to the avaerage gi, and is impossible to get now