Our Black Rifle Related Initiatives
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
Here's another thought,
By critically examining this issue and providing expert advice, a Black Rifle user's group could provide valuable advice and support, for not only the big gun groups, but also the government's Firearms Advisory Committee.
This would be invaluable during a period of legislative change.
Not only would there be a common direction on recommendations to government on changes to firearms laws, there would be a direct addressing of the issue by the user's group, which would be in turn echoed and supported by the big gun groups.
Your main concentration now should be on accumulating supporting documentation showing just how the restricted/prohibited classifications of Canada's firearms laws have not delivered the public safety benefits they were introduced to provide, the arbitrary nature of the regulations, and also begin to dispel some of the social and cultural myths that have been constructed by the gun control lobby and Liberal governments of the past.
You need to recruit expert users with recognized qualifications in military and law enforcement to advise this group. A spokesman with these qualifications would be a great thing, and he wouldn't have to give speeches in public or at rallies, just be available to advise government when legislation was being re written.
The time is long overdue for something like this.
Blair Hagen
Vice President, Communications
National Firearms Association
www.nfa.ca
By critically examining this issue and providing expert advice, a Black Rifle user's group could provide valuable advice and support, for not only the big gun groups, but also the government's Firearms Advisory Committee.
This would be invaluable during a period of legislative change.
Not only would there be a common direction on recommendations to government on changes to firearms laws, there would be a direct addressing of the issue by the user's group, which would be in turn echoed and supported by the big gun groups.
Your main concentration now should be on accumulating supporting documentation showing just how the restricted/prohibited classifications of Canada's firearms laws have not delivered the public safety benefits they were introduced to provide, the arbitrary nature of the regulations, and also begin to dispel some of the social and cultural myths that have been constructed by the gun control lobby and Liberal governments of the past.
You need to recruit expert users with recognized qualifications in military and law enforcement to advise this group. A spokesman with these qualifications would be a great thing, and he wouldn't have to give speeches in public or at rallies, just be available to advise government when legislation was being re written.
The time is long overdue for something like this.
Blair Hagen
Vice President, Communications
National Firearms Association
www.nfa.ca
Last edited:
"Your main concentration now should be on accumulating supporting documentation showing just how the restricted/prohibited classifications of Canada's firearms laws have not delivered the public safety benefits they were introduced to provide, the arbitrary nature of the regulations, and also begin to dispel some of the social and cultural myths that have been constructed by the gun control lobby and Liberal governments of the past."
I don't think this approach will produce result. The best method is to take apart the system piece by piece.
First, derestrict AR - this is just a technical issue of OIC. We could get this one quite easily. We just need to find a right way to do without making a big fuss so no one is embrassed. The key here is "cooperation" to assist the bureacracy better execute the regulation.
Second, go for the heritage angle on the CF firearms. THis will liberate a whole bunch of thing and it is for a good cause. It is a way to appreciate the sacrifice and heritage of our military.
You don't need to use a hammer - use a paper cutter and slice the vein off one by one until it fell on its own weight.
Don't be too greedy. Sometimes people are too greedy and want to get things done in one big step. I don't think this is how it should be done since reversing any ban is always difficult "psychologically" to the government and the general public. Everyone needs to appreciate the perspective of your enemies, those who are ignorant and those that are the executors.
I don't think this approach will produce result. The best method is to take apart the system piece by piece.
First, derestrict AR - this is just a technical issue of OIC. We could get this one quite easily. We just need to find a right way to do without making a big fuss so no one is embrassed. The key here is "cooperation" to assist the bureacracy better execute the regulation.
Second, go for the heritage angle on the CF firearms. THis will liberate a whole bunch of thing and it is for a good cause. It is a way to appreciate the sacrifice and heritage of our military.
You don't need to use a hammer - use a paper cutter and slice the vein off one by one until it fell on its own weight.
Don't be too greedy. Sometimes people are too greedy and want to get things done in one big step. I don't think this is how it should be done since reversing any ban is always difficult "psychologically" to the government and the general public. Everyone needs to appreciate the perspective of your enemies, those who are ignorant and those that are the executors.
Last edited:
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
You won't need to do this if new legislation is being written.
The government is not going to address this issue until after the next election. They have promised to end the long gun registry, but leave the restricted and prohibited categories as is. They haven't even solved the crisis of the post '95 12(6) handgun owners, or all 12(6) handgun owners for that matter, and that is the biggest prohibited class.
There will be no reversing of the AR15 OIC in the short term because the headline the next day in the Toronto Star and the Toronto Globe and Mail would be "Conservatives Legalize Assault Weapons".
You recently saw the Ottawa Citizen try and re ignite the "assault weapons" debate with a series of articles. This was designed to hamstring the government on the firearms issue in the perceived run up to an election. We are still in that "run up".
The firearms bureaucracy doesn't want to help the firearms community. The firearms bureaucracy is right now trying to find ways to facilitate MORE gun bans. They aren't interested in helping us convince the government to take the AR15 off the restricted list, they want to convince the government to prohibit it and every other military style semi automatic.
The "de restriction" of currently restricted or prohibited firearms will only come after the government is re elected with a majority or a strong minority.
Yes. When the time comes to address this issue, it will be important to re enforce Canada's long history of civilian marksmanship in support of the military. This government will be far more interested in this than previous Liberal governments, which basically wanted to disband the Canadian Armed Forces.
The problem is the government holds the paper cutter, and at the moment they are not interested in employing it to these ends.
It doesn't have anything to do with being greedy, it's just the nature of the problem. If the opportunity presents itself to address the matter in the way that you advocate, the big gun groups will approach it on that basis.
The fact is that at the moment it is not presenting itself that way and has not since the early 1980's, when one rifle was taken off the restricted list as a sop to firearms community. It was a different political situation then.
After the next election, once the government sees itself as having a clear mandate from Canadians to re write Canada's firearms laws, they will be much more willing to address the systemic stupidities of firearms regulations.
They will be in a far better position to ignore the inevitable "assault weapons" hysteria that the gun control lobby will try and whip up.
What I am saying is, that until then, the Black Rifle community should prepare in the manner I have outlined.
Last edited:
- Location
- land of f-cktards
I do that on a regular basis and its a start
I wish i had a nickel for every timeI heard someone say I wish could own an FN
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
This is exactly what this thread is about !
The Black rifle community is going to have to step up if this issue is ever going to get the attention it deserves.
Form a user's group with knowledgable leadership, with qualifications in the firearms fields concerned, and you will be far better prepared to influence future legislation and prevent any possible bans.
Well, I've always thought that it would be a good idea to use CGN as a platform for some sort of a political lobby group. However, the usual response is "keep sending money to the orgs that already exist – they are [supposedly] lobbying the government on your behalf".
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
By all means keep doing that, the existing orgs are.
But specific to the Black Rifle issue, there is a sentiment that not enough has been done in the past to prevent them from being legislated against, and this is somewhat true.
CGN is a great internet site, but it is not a vehicle for political or legislative action, although it is perhaps a means for it. You'd get laughed out of the room the first time you show up to committee hearings in a beaver T shirt.
But Black Rifle users can play an effective role if they organize in a professional manner, as indicated in my previous posts.
It's not a money thing. It's an organization thing.
Last edited:
In my mind one of the first steps should be to make some sort of Freedom of Information request to the RCMP so we can determine what methodology they are using to determine what a "variant" is. For each type of deemed prohibited/restricted firearm there should be a technical report out there to determine that it is indeed a "variant" of firearm X. Since we all know that the M16 is the "parent" firearm named in the OIC, and that the AR15 design predates it by a number of years, we could be in a position to request that the status of dozens, if not hundreds of make/models of firearm be reviewed. Also useful would be to get the full documentation on what triggered the Valmets from being eventually exempted from the AK variant list.
THis approach is unnecessary as the definition of "variant" could be interpreted by a reasonable person already. Forcing a showdown like this will potentiallly open more cans of worms.
I think this is a pure administrative issue that can be done rather quietly under the radar, instead of a grassroot campaign of mass mail.
This is obviously a mistake in the reading and intrepertation of the regulation - it doesn't need to be escalated to freedom of access act.
Civil servants hate, absolutely hate, producing information for freedom of access request. THey much prefer to correct their mistakes quietly and I think this is the right way for this particular issue.
So gun laws have been overturned before. That is encouraging to know.
It gets a bit depressing reading posts that say that NO gun law in Canada has EVER been relaxed.
Now, lets get started on this new initiative. Would the DCRA
http://www.dcra.ca/welcome.htm
(and the provincial bodies) be willing to jump on board this, not just for AR-15's but all semi service rifles?
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
The DCRA and the provincial rifle associations have traditionally not seen themselves as political entities, they generally do not take part in the political process.
DCRA's intervention to save the AR15 back during C68 was unprecedented, but understandible.
Had the AR15 been prohibited, service rifle competitions in Canada would have been ended.
While I think DCRA would certainly support reforms to firearms regs, I don't know how willing they would be to actively lobby for them.
But it's probably a good idea to make them aware of these efforts, and offer them the opportunity for participation.
skeetgunner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Burlington
You might want to include the Minister for Sport too. Families get tax credits for entering their kids in sports (any sports) and removing the restricted class from the AR15 eliminates a barrier to entry into a sport.
The problem here, as Blair pointed out, is the fact that the federal firearms bureaucracy are ALL LIEBERAL appointees. They have a stake in preserving the status quo, or even helping to put additional bans in place. They're a big reason Bill C-21 sucks so badly.
The Conservatives have shown that they're quite willing to essentially take gun owners for granted while they remain in a minority position. They "know" that gun owners will continue to vote Conservative, simply because they're the only real alternative we have. As such, the CPC has been perfecting their carrot-and-stick routine since taking power, making lots of promises, but not following through because of the political realities of the situation. Wonder why legislation to eliminate the long-gun registry wasn't included in their Omnibus Crime Bill?
The CPC isn't going to open up the whole gun control can of worms before another general election. There's some hope that if/when they win a majority, they'll remember us, but until then we're in limbo...hoping that no additional Dunblane/Port Arthur/Montreal mass shootings takes place in Canada that will force the government to act precipitously.
So, expecting the CPC to handle things quietly and to reclassify AR-15s via OIC isn't realistic. They could've done the same thing last year and made ATTs permanently part of your RPAL and they could've solved the 12(x)/SAP mess the same way, but they didn't. The CPC is simply focused on looking out for number one: the CPC and their goal of forming a majority government. Until that happens, the best we can hope for is to keep the pressure on them and to keep fresh in their minds that gun owners eventually expect them to make good on their promises, however, that support does have an expiry date.
If the CPC were really pro-firearm, they could've done something to solve some of the more aggregious facets of the gun control program like the ATT issue, just like Joe Clark did while he was in minority territory on the question of AR-15 classification. That said, I think we all must remain vigilant and to not assume that the CPC are our best buddies. They're our "friends" just as long as our money and votes are important to them. If there comes a time when our "support" becomes more politically damaging to the CPC than beneficial, they'll cut us loose without a second thought.
As for organizing a black/green/service rifle owners association, I'm all for it, as unfortunately, one of the realities of the recreational firearms community in Canada is the fact that there are so many self-interested cliques within our firearms community. i.e., hunters are only interested in protecting hunting firearms, trap shooters only interested in their sport, etc...(I'm not saying all are like that!) As such, I think that an association devoted solely to the protection and promotion of rifles like the AR-15, AR-10, PE-90, AR-180B, etc...would definitely be helpful. National organizations like the NFA & CSSA are fighting for all gun owners rights, but too often, they must pick and choose their battles strategically or simply lack the resources to fully commit to such a narrow fight as "black rifles."
Also, what has really been damaging to us has been the consistantly negative portrayal of so-called "assault weapons" in the print and tv media. Assault Weapon has become the boogeyman of the pro-gun control movement in North America, and far too often we see fellow gun-owners getting on TV and spouting off how they don't see any need for those "evil" "machine guns" that they can't hunt with anyway! Anybody remember gun-writer Jim Zumbo?
To proceed, we need to define our mission, our goals, association structure, create a constitution, elect officers and form a legal not-for-profit entity (i.e. incorporate) & start fund-raising to pay for our lobbying & education/awareness campaigns.
