Our Non restricted lower and the DA50 upper Pics added May 4 2105

[Ghost~Rider]

The upper weighs 20 pounds, plus whatever you add to it. The weight plus the efficient muzzle brake eats the recoil quite well.
I did wear plugs and muffs the first time, not the second time. The shooter doesnt get nearly the blast compared to standing along side it.
When I was video-ing others shooting, I got hit by a wall of blast.

Sound! Some relevant info thanks. 20lb for the upper is approaching Barrett 99 weight by the time you add the lower, bi-pod, Etc. (The gun looks 15lb max)

The recoil looked alittle more aggressive compaired to a 99, maybe it's the brake and its design. Seems like the initial blast is directed sideways which is nice (Not for the people shooting either side)

Thanks or the info. If you have more infomation about the upper and overall gun, please post it up.

Even some close up pictures would be nice.

 

[matt_r89]

just be happy ATRS is going through the effort of dealing with the gestappo (which is a whole other world of pain in frustration as you probably all know) and trying to bring something to market that may actually see use in something other than being a holepunch at the range (although a rather large one). if we as a community try and get a non restricted "AR thats not an AR" or make a "pistol" so we can have ten round mags. They will bring the hammer down and inevitably undo all the liberties we have managed to wrench from their fists. (beowulf mags, LAR mags, and all the other semi .223's that shoot as well if not better than an AR. maybe if they are feeling in a really good mood they will prohib anything that shoots .223 or .50bmg (like they did with .32 or.25)

Buy the lower and modified upper enjoy shooting a really big gun.

 

[tootall]

I guess I'm a bit confused; I thought the uppers are not controlled (except length and that is for the final product when upper and lower put together); they don't have serial numbers on them how can they be controlled anyways. They are simply considered as barrels; I brought a Mech-Tech conversion unit with me in 2007, showed the border guys what it is; they said they'll hold it until they figure out what it is, and returned it to me 8 weeks later.

Am I correct to assume ATRS' single shot lower has an FRT entry as a NR firearm? If it does; why what I put on it would make a difference?

Reason I'm asking is because some years ago I was planning to order Tactilite .50 and .338 kits; at that time they were coming up with their single shot lowers. Decided to wait and see if that lower will make it this way NR, then my interest faded away...

An AR15 upper on one of these lowers that doesn't have a magazine well is not an AR-15 variant anymore; heck it doesn't take a magazine; so it should have a different FRT number...

You are correct. The upper is just a part, not the "firearm".
You could strap it to your back and drive your motorcycle back and forth thru a school zone all day long if you want.
You just can't have a Restricted lower with you when you do.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

We received the DA50 upper today. First impression is that is seems very well made, but more importantly it CAN be altered slightly and our NR lower will work just fine.

Now we just need some time to machine a bunch of lowers.
For those interested please contact us at the shop directly.
As soon as we have a bit of time we will mod this upper and take photos.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

How will these hold up to the .50 over time? Are they beefed up at all compared to a standard AR lower ? could one be made from steel?

On a standard AR15 lower they last up just fine from my experiences with a Ferret upper years ago. We have beefed up what we build more to make it look proportionate than structure.
Steel would be REAL expensive and is not required. 7075 T651 is being used and has more than enough strength to do the job.

 

[cigar_man]

So. . .Single shot, AR-looking, non-restricted, 50 BMG rifle for ~$2500. That's pretty damn good as a Canadian option.

Give or take a few Canadian Green Backs, Yes, one helluva deal.

The more the merrier if you ask me.

Thank you Canada Ammo and Alberta Tactical Rifle for the pleasure.

 

[45ACPKING]

not to beat up anyone over pricing..... the 1599.00 for the upper I get.
the modifications/labour is where I see the cost for the NR finished product because anything similar to an AR lower (but not an AR lower) should be pretty affordable to CNC considering the current price of AR lowers..... considering the machining requirement similarities. I realize I could be way off base here tho....
I looked at the wife this evening and asked her if she thought we needed a 50BMG for the household needs...... her exact words and I quote "##### ya, why not" ........ I gots me a good one. no surprise she's from Bosnia


question for Rick/ATRS crew..... should we be buying the upper from canam now and sending it in when this is greenlighted or are you going to supply a finished rifle for sale?

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

$700.00 is pretty dam pricy for a lower,,especially if it's a stripped lower,,which it probably would be,,i mean look at the prices for lowers around,,most are 1/4 of that...i realize NR is the goal,,,but that's a hell of a premium for that..pretty sure a regualr lower with NO MAGWELL,,or the possibility of installing one should pass pretty easily in the RCMP lab,,i mean,,,,if the RCMP tried holding that up with their bull####,,,another PUBLIC,,,VERY PUBLIC publicity campaign by Firearms industry reps would CLEARLY show the regular public how the RCMP is GOING way out of their way to BLOCK firearms manufacturing in Canada with IDIOTIC excuses,,i mean a lower with no possiblity of EVER being able to be more than a single shot is pretty clear to understand,,i doubt the RCMP would want THAT kind of attention to their corruptness to be brought in the public eye AGAIN,,,they are already on thin ice and they know it,,the average joe in the non gun public isn't stupid,,and when clearly shown the RCMP'd underhanded tactics understand that what the RCMP is doing is BULLYING the firearms enthousiast,,,wonder how they'd feel is the RCMP went after their high end sportscar simply because they look TOO DANGEROUS,,,and try and say it's to keep the public safe,,,even though you STILL have to follow the speed limit no matter what car you drive,,

No offense meant, and I agree with some of your thoughts, but you do NOT have a clue about what it takes to design, then write all the programs to make a VERY specific part that has an EXTREMELY small market, navigate the, in this case the lower, through the legal system and then get it into production.

Maybe you should try it and your tune about the cost will change DRAMATICALLY! Producing a very small number of lowers that have NO value in any other country in the world means that the very small number of people who truly desire this custom for Canada only designed item will have to pony up to cover the cost of the design, programming and manufacturing of the extremely specialize lower, or shoot a gun that is restricted.
Only a small specialty shop such as mine would even entertain bothering to undertake such a high risk low return venture. I don't see any of the big name mass produced manufacturers jumping at the chance to make 50 or so unique lowers. There is a phrase you should look up. "Economies of scale".

Although I agree that the system for legal classification is totally screwed and that the SFSS lab is a rogue department with little or no accountability, THEY still have the power and the firearms industry is forced to dance to THEIR tune.
Getting up on a soap box and ranting will not solve any problems, reform of the system IS required. Are you leading this reform or merely whining and wanting others to do this for you?

I for 1 spent time very recently along with 4 other high profile members of the firearms industry meeting with Minister Blaney about this.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Your car analogy can be further extrapolated. With your logic a VERY limited production car say like a Lambo or Maserati should not cost anymore than a Kia or Hyundia? The Lambo and Maserati are a WHOLE DIFFERENT car than the Kia or Hyundia. Both might get you to work but guess what the latter 2 sell likely 10000 to 1 what the first 2 do. The first 2 are LOW production very specialized vehicles and the manufacturer puts a price on them based on what it costs to make them.
The latter 2 are mass produced cars designed to sell to a specific market and are made on assembly lines manned by folks who get paid FAR lower wages than the Italian craftsmen who made a few Lambos or Maseratis every year.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

not to beat up anyone over pricing..... the 1599.00 for the upper I get.
the modifications/labour is where I see the cost for the NR finished product because anything similar to an AR lower (but not an AR lower) should be pretty affordable to CNC considering the current price of AR lowers..... considering the machining requirement similarities. I realize I could be way off base here tho....
I looked at the wife this evening and asked her if she thought we needed a 50BMG for the household needs...... her exact words and I quote "##### ya, why not" ........ I gots me a good one. no surprise she's from Bosnia


question for Rick/ATRS crew..... should we be buying the upper from canam now and sending it in when this is greenlighted or are you going to supply a finished rifle for sale?

See my reply to hootguy for pricing. It should shed some light on why these seem to have a high cost.
People have to understand that a machine shop in Calgary shop rates run $125.00 to $150.00 and it take a lot more than half an hour to simply machine a lower out. By the time you turn a $100.00 block of aluminum into a lower, just over 2 hours of actual machine time and the cost to do the final hand finish of each part and have it anodized.
The cost of the upper modification takes over an hour on its own. AND is included in the $750.00 price, which most seem to be overlooking for some reason.

For those few who want a NON restricted purpose built lower and are willing to pay for what it took and will take to get these into limited production we are suggesting to talk with Canada Ammo and see if they will ship the upper directly to us so as to get the upper mods done in batches rather than 1 at a time.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Given the number of guys who have emailed they are interested and the amount of it is not cheap enough for many given some of the posts in this thread, BEFORE we go ANY further I think it is everyone involved s interest, especially that of ATRS that we set up a pre order.

Rather than for us to take on the cost of having to re-create the stolen programs, which is an EXPENSIVE undertaking. Purchasing the aluminum which works out to pennies under $100.00 per lower and then having a number of "I'll take 1" decide not to that a pre-order is required.

IF we get around 50 folks who pony up a deposit we will proceed, if we do not within 2 months get enough pre-orders to warrant moving forward further we will refund the deposits.

I would propose that a $250.00 deposit is not out of line. The old saying of put your money where your mouth/typing fingers is, is the plan.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

When CanadaAmmo came out with their 1600 buck 50BMG upper, I suspect people were hoping to get the complete package for around 2 grand.

Well they still can, but it will be restricted.
For about $2500.00 they can have a complete NON RESTRICTED 50 which is still REAL CHEAP as far as 50s go. Next people will want ammo for a 50 that costs $1.00 per round as we used to find in the USA years ago.

Wants and reality just don't always work out.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Rick, my apologies if my comments rubbed ya the wrong way.
Gonna check with Canada ammo on the upper availability and I'll be in touch. Pre order on the lower is a good idea

No worries, and no offense taken.
I am simply trying to explain why making a very few of anything in a city that is expensive to begin with costs so much more than what a 3rd world manufacturer could produce a similar product for. To get a purpose built lower made in China would be possible, but the volume would have to be there, and in this particular case as also is the case with our modern Hunters, the numbers just are not there.

I can get AR15 lowers from China as I suspect another manufacturer here in Canada is doing for a cost of $48.00 CDN per stripped lower. The kicker is the minimum order being 5000 units and the fact that you have to like cheap crap lowers of indeterminate brand and a non documented grade of some sort of aluminum material.

 

[emerson]

Bjesus, I wish people would stop pissin in Rick's cornflakes!

It leaves a bad taste.

Me, myself and I are gratefull at what he is offering us.

This. The man is running a business and making himself regularly available to single online customers. Cranky internet commandos are not worth the money they "may" put into a business. Rick is interacting at this level because he cares, there isn't much of a monetary reason to put himself through this. No, I've never met or even talked to the man by phone, but I do know everything is more expensive for all of us these days.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

so you are talking deposits on a nonrestricted lower ?

Yes, deposits on a purpose built NR lower that will fit a DA50. This is NOT an AR lower, it has some appearance similarities, but can NOT be used with anything except the DA50, Ferret or Safety Harbor 50m BMG upper, with permanent modifications done to the upper.

 

[Valore-Dave]

I for one am totally willing to adhere to whatever process ATRS deems reasonable, as they are clearly trying to do everyone here a favour. Furthermore the cost of the lower seems appropriate considering the labor/cost intensive process. I am only waiting on visual confirmation of what this lower looks like before making a deposit. I'd also like to know what stock options would be available... i.e can standard ar compatible stocks be mated etc. Thanks for your time and effort Rick. It is much appreciated. Looking forward to some pictures.

 

[Suther]

I was wondering about the need for rcmp approval as well.
I could be misunderstanding things but why would the rcmp need to approve or inspect a receiver that meets non restricted criteria. many hobby machinists have build their own NR bolt guns with no laws broken and no rcmp inspection/approval......
this should just be a design, machine, test, work out any bugs, test and deliver to waiting customer........ or am I wayyyyy off base here?

regardless, I'm gonna be in for the deposit idea. I've held off on the modern hunter only for sake of seeing a bunch of owner feedback ect but this I think i'll jump on right away.

Its approved. They made it like 7 years ago for the Ferret 50cal BMG upper. Already has an FRT and everything, they just need to redo the program for it and make some more. They only have one remaining specimen and they are using it to confirm compatibility with the DA50.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

do you guys have a nonrestricted lower in your hands , or is this something your building from scratch and need the rcmp to approve ?

Alright, we have made these in the past as in 2009/2010. The SFSS/RCMP have had their chance to screw us over and deemed it NON RESTRICTED back in 2009. Just because we are no longer in possession of the programs that the CNC runs on does NOT alter the fact that the lower is already a DONE DEAL.

YES we have to re-write the programs as I stated earlier. DO I have a physical sample in stock? Not that i will sell.
Does this require further SFSS/RCMP B.S. NO!
Are we clear now? I thought this was already spelled out in this thread? and NO it will not make your AR15 NON restricted.

Please do not take this post personally, I have answered the same 2 or 3 questions about 100 times already today via emails and PMs,
We are stupidly busy and frankly so much has been answered in this thread that i am at a loss as to why some guys just refuse to read my posts.
There is NOTHING more I can say other than it will work and IF there are the numbers we will make them.

 

[Picatinny]

Just a few thoughts….
- Regain your sanity - Lock this thread… Rick, your patience is amazing.
- Create a new thread with the number of orders for this lower - updated monthly and lock it.
- When you reach a golden number - 30, 50 75, 100 or whatever - make a run.
- Get back to the MH production & custom work.

 

[blueskies]

No offense meant, and I agree with some of your thoughts, but you do NOT have a clue about what it takes to design, then write all the programs to make a VERY specific part that has an EXTREMELY small market, navigate the, in this case the lower, through the legal system and then get it into production.

Maybe you should try it and your tune about the cost will change DRAMATICALLY! Producing a very small number of lowers that have NO value in any other country in the world means that the very small number of people who truly desire this custom for Canada only designed item will have to pony up to cover the cost of the design, programming and manufacturing of the extremely specialize lower, or shoot a gun that is restricted.
Only a small specialty shop such as mine would even entertain bothering to undertake such a high risk low return venture. I don't see any of the big name mass produced manufacturers jumping at the chance to make 50 or so unique lowers. There is a phrase you should look up. "Economies of scale".

Although I agree that the system for legal classification is totally screwed and that the SFSS lab is a rogue department with little or no accountability, THEY still have the power and the firearms industry is forced to dance to THEIR tune.
Getting up on a soap box and ranting will not solve any problems, reform of the system IS required. Are you leading this reform or merely whining and wanting others to do this for you?

I for 1 spent time very recently along with 4 other high profile members of the firearms industry meeting with Minister Blaney about this.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Your car analogy can be further extrapolated. With your logic a VERY limited production car say like a Lambo or Maserati should not cost anymore than a Kia or Hyundia? The Lambo and Maserati are a WHOLE DIFFERENT car than the Kia or Hyundia. Both might get you to work but guess what the latter 2 sell likely 10000 to 1 what the first 2 do. The first 2 are LOW production very specialized vehicles and the manufacturer puts a price on them based on what it costs to make them.
The latter 2 are mass produced cars designed to sell to a specific market and are made on assembly lines manned by folks who get paid FAR lower wages than the Italian craftsmen who made a few Lambos or Maseratis every year.

 

[Mark978]

stolen? Maybe cheaper option to just "extract" the programming from the thief?