out of the box accuracy a rem 700 police

stevebc said:
Ian, what's the maximum weight you'd shoot in a 1:13 twist? The jump in BC between the 155 and the 208 Amax is significant:
155 average G7: .212
208 average G7: .324
Click to expand...


It's not weight, it's length that matter. How long is the amax?

Yes, there is a big difference in BC, but there is also a HUGE difference in velocity. You will get equal long range performance from a 155 going 3000 as you will from a 208 going 2500, with less recoil.
 
You can drive a 208 at over 2600 with RL-17 in 22-26" barrels (I've hit 2650). It has a noticeable advantage in wind and its velocity is higher than the 155's is when they pass that 1k line. More drop, but that's irrelevant at know ranges. Recoil is still miles away from that of a 300 WM. Accuracy nodes fall around 2950 for the 155 and 2580 for the 208 in standard length barrels.

155 Scenar @ 2950 MV: 1000 yards -322.3" (drop) -30.8 MOA (drop) 87.5" (wind) 8.4 MOA (wind) 1271 fps.
208 AMAX @ 2580 MV: 1000 yards -358.0" (drop) -34.2 MOA (drop) 69.0" (wind) 6.6 MOA (wind) 1386 fps.

Wind drift is only academic if you can't read the wind anyway... The beef with the 208 load is that RL-17 isn't very temperature stable and tends to walk off the accuracy nodes when the temperature swings. Plus, both 208s and RL-17 can be hard to get. These would be a bad choice if you don't buy in large quantities. 155s are cheaper and available. Plus, several temperature stable powders work well with them.

If you want to shoot the heavies in the dead of winter, 1-12" is not adequate. Over summer, its fine, but I've had the 208s keyhole in a 1-11" barrel when its freezing out. JBM has a tool that will give you an idea if the combination you're looking at is stable (you really need to test in real life though): http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
 
X-fan said:
Nice groups, but 1/2 inch bug holes at 100yds do not equal a .5 MOA rifle at distance.
Not even close.

Try stretching out the range...You may indeed get lucky!
Click to expand...

To give him (Charles) credit, he did post photos - I saw three groups, with at least five shots per group, one was a half-incher and two were quarter-inchers. I assume this was fired at 100 yards or 100 metres, though he never said.

So he is doing better than 99% of internet yak-yak. For one thing, actual fired groups. For another, five shots instead of three. For yet another, three groups shown rather than just one. So unless he's manipulating the data (and why assume that beforehand), he's actually got quite a nice shooting rifle. I can shoot groups like his 0.512" group with my target rifle (BR-style with scope), but I can't shoot groups like his 0.228" and 0.208" one. So unless he is faking it and lying to us, he and his rifle are shooting quite well.

It's true that groups at longer distance don't get any smaller, MOA-wise, they do grow a bit when things are working correctly (and with ammo problems, perhaps they grow a lot - but that's something that is usually fixable).

A lot of things have to go right in order to reliably shoot 1/2 MOA (or less!) at 100 - good rifle, good barrel, good ammo, and a good shooter who is able to fire *all* of his shots without making anything more than very minor mistakes. The latter bit can take some of us (ahem ;-) a few years to reliably master.

(to respond to the original question - you'll likely get about 1MOA or perhaps a bit better, say 3/4 MOA. It could be as bad as 1.5 MOA, which is Remington's acceptance criterion (or at least it was in the early 1990s). Worse than 1.5 MOA you have a legitimate beef and Remington ought to fix it. Sometimes you really get lucky and might get a factory rifle that shoots a true half-MOA; these do exist, but they are quite uncommon).

Kombayotch, I'm not sure how to interpret what you said, Wind drift is only academic if you can't read the wind anyway. I'm of the position that we all read wind to a certain level of achievement; the errors that we make (the difference between our wind call and what the wind really is), show up on the target as a certain amount by which we miss the centre of the target. Regardless of the level of wind-reading skill of the shooter, the size of that error on target will be smaller if you are shooting a bullet that drifts less. So a bullet that drifts less ought to improve the performance (i.e. score achieved) of great wind readers as well as mediocre wind readers.
 
I mean that often there is more time spent analyzing loads (to gain a few inches of wind performance) than there is actually trying to learn how to read and shoot in the wind. A 308 in the hands of great wind reader will score more hits than a 6.5-284 in the hands of mediocre wind reader and a novice really need not split hairs on selecting the right bullet. He should just get out and shoot with an accurate load. Being able to put more rounds down range for the same cost will benefit the novice more than the added performance of the higher BC bullet.
 
Thank you rnbra-shooter !!

This groups have been shot at 100 yards and they are 5 shot groups.
I have a standard load for this rifle: Case Lapua, Bullet 155gr Lapua, 45gr of varget, CCI-BR2 and seated at 0.017 of the riffling.
Like i have said i have been lucky with this 700p and this is not always the case with the rem 700 that i have own.

Im so impress with this barrel that i have change pratically everything on the rifle except this factory barrel.
Now she look like that.
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/charles1515/Rem700Custom2.jpg

After all this mod, thats not shoot better than my factory 700p except that i feel so better with this stock.

I have no pretention and i just wanted too show what a good rem 700 factory can sometimes do with a good load.

I always try to be better and learn. For X-Fan yes i will shoot longer distance in 1 week or two. We will have a 600 yards and maybe a 1000 at Mansonville Québec :)

Thanks
Charles
 
My Rem 700P out of the box would shoot .5-.75MOA with match loads if I did my part. After having the rifle done up right at the gunsmith I am still using the same barrel and have shot some amazing loads out of it. My best 5 shot group ever was at 300 yards, .305", basically a one hole group.

I think out of the box a 700P should do 1MOA at least. After having mine tuned it shoots way better than I can, it is amazingly accurate.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
To give him (Charles) credit, he did post photos - I saw three groups, with at least five shots per group, one was a half-incher and two were quarter-inchers. I assume this was fired at 100 yards or 100 metres, though he never said.

So he is doing better than 99% of internet yak-yak. For one thing, actual fired groups. For another, five shots instead of three. For yet another, three groups shown rather than just one. So unless he's manipulating the data (and why assume that beforehand), he's actually got quite a nice shooting rifle. I can shoot groups like his 0.512" group with my target rifle (BR-style with scope), but I can't shoot groups like his 0.228" and 0.208" one. So unless he is faking it and lying to us, he and his rifle are shooting quite well.

It's true that groups at longer distance don't get any smaller, MOA-wise, they do grow a bit when things are working correctly (and with ammo problems, perhaps they grow a lot - but that's something that is usually fixable).

A lot of things have to go right in order to reliably shoot 1/2 MOA (or less!) at 100 - good rifle, good barrel, good ammo, and a good shooter who is able to fire *all* of his shots without making anything more than very minor mistakes. The latter bit can take some of us (ahem ;-) a few years to reliably master.
Click to expand...

Well said and yes there are factory rifles capable of good accuracy.
A rifle that will consistently put five in 1/4-1/2" at 100 will quite likely shoot at distance.
Though not likely not likely with the same load.

The biggest issue I have had with factory rifles (barrels more to the point) is consistency. I've had factory barrels that on one group will give a 5 shot bug hole. Next time you might get another bug hole or you might put 3 in one hole then for some unknown reason spit two out of the group?

Bug holes are great, but to me "accuracy" is the about the biggest group I can count on the rifle can producing on demand.
Shooter and environmental issues aside this number is bigger than most of us want to accept...Even were fancy target rifles are concerned. ;)
 
Charles said:
Thank you rnbra-shooter !!

This groups have been shot at 100 yards and they are 5 shot groups.
I have a standard load for this rifle: Case Lapua, Bullet 155gr Lapua, 45gr of varget, CCI-BR2 and seated at 0.017 of the riffling.
Like i have said i have been lucky with this 700p and this is not always the case with the rem 700 that i have own.

Im so impress with this barrel that i have change pratically everything on the rifle except this factory barrel.
Now she look like that.
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/charles1515/Rem700Custom2.jpg

After all this mod, thats not shoot better than my factory 700p except that i feel so better with this stock.

I have no pretention and i just wanted too show what a good rem 700 factory can sometimes do with a good load.

I always try to be better and learn. For X-Fan yes i will shoot longer distance in 1 week or two. We will have a 600 yards and maybe a 1000 at Mansonville Québec :)

Thanks
Charles
Click to expand...

Nice looking toy!
Looks like you own an exceptional factory barrel. It would also seem as if you can shoot...Nice work.
Let us know how you make out a bit further out..
 
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