over gunned?

[ratherbefishin]

A very interesting article in one of the hunting magazines-are we becoming so obsessed with big guns[and big recoil] that the potential advantages are outweighed by the flinch effect-resulting in poor shot placement?
Got to admit-it's food for thought,especially when I think of the amount of big game killed with essentially military weapons-303's and 30-06's and their derivitives-308's 270's etc.
I think one of the factors people fail to take into account is most of us are more accurate shooters with moderate recoil weapons

 

[Ronforca]

I shoot much better with my 243 than I do with my Browning 338.No problem shooting the head off of Grouse with the 243.Never even attempted it with my 338.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

A lighter recoiling rifle I find is easier to shoot accurately. That being said this does not have to mean lighter calibers. I have no problem getting 2.5" 5 shot groups at 500 meters with my 50 BMG, which weighs 60lbs and recoils like a 410 shotgun. I do not consider myself recoil sensitive, but do not shoot heavy recoiling rifles as well as lighter 1s., hence many of my rifles are either heavy or recoil suppressed.
I agree that many are becoming obsessed with bigger and harder hitting hunting calibers than the game requires, and I do subscribe to the fact that bullet placement is far more important than kinetic energy transfer. According to the computer program my compound bow sends an arrow at 246 fps down range with 96 fps of energy, now granted the blades offer a cutting wound advantage but the energy is miniscule iwhen compared to the 7000 ftlbs of energy my 300 win mag generates, but I have killed several things with my bow, shot placement is the answer. The answer to shot placement is accuracy, to get accuracy 1 must be able to shoot the rifle without a big flinch or worse fear of the recoil. I get scores of guys who get talked into buying BIG caliber rifles, that as soon as they shoot the cannons, want some form of recoil reduction system installed on the rifle, so it doesn't hurt to shoot, but then ##### about the additional noise or weight :mrgreen:

 

[todbartell]

who wouldn't shoot better with a moderate recoiling rifle!? :?

I've gone from shooting 7mm Mag, to 416 Mag, to 30-06. 30-06 is plenty for me, will kill anything dead as hell with less fuss than a 300 or 338

 

[joe-nwt]

but the energy is miniscule iwhen compared to the 7000 ftlbs of energy my 300 win mag generates

Mind sharing that load? 4200fps with 180's?

 

[Gibbs505]

Recoil dosen't me much until I pull out my 505!! :!: :lol: :wink:

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Mind sharing that load? 4200fps with 180's

Sorry overstated it bit actually its only 5100 ftlbs with 240 gr MK at 3112 fps :mrgreen:

 

[Gatehouse]

I voted no.

I shoot a fair bit, and recoil doens't startt o get the better of me until I've been shoooting alot form the bench using a hard kicker, like when developing handloads.

I KNOW that I started to flinch after abotu 30-35 rounds from my .375H&H when workign up a load, so I stopped shooting!

I *do* think that most hutners that don't shoot that much would be best served by something like a 7-08, .270, .308. Even a 30-06 will recoil enough to give alot of peopel a flinch, especially with a max load or one of those "High Energy" loads regardless of thier body size, etc.

There are far too many folks that are shooting 300Magnums that really can't shoot them well, because of lack of practice.

Recoil tolerance is just that- tolerance. And you can build up a tolerance for anything. When I first bought a 7RM, it was the most powerful rifle I had shot to date. I thought the recoil was really bad at the time, but now I have no problem blasting away with it all day, from the bench or other positions.

I was helping a friend work up a load for his rifle a few years ago, and then I said I wanted to check my zero, so I sat down fired 3 rounds pretty quick, and he was surprised that anyone could shoot that fast "with a hard kicker like the 7RM" and still get a nice sub 1" group!

If you want to shoot the hard kickers, then you need to practice with them...That's really the bottom line.

 

[BIGREDD]

I definitely like the soft recoilers better... my shoulders are both beyond repair.
That said I do shoot a lot of heavy recoiling firearms regularly, slug guns, magnum muzzle loaders, and many magnums when doing sight ins.
I use a lead sled for 90% of the bench work now... and I save my shoulders for serious shooting practice... and hunting.
If you are prepared mentally and have a practiced system it is not difficult to shoot a heavy recoiler accurately... it might hurt you a little but as long as it kills at the other end its all good 8)

 

[MD]

I used to hunt with a 243 and my buddy got sick and tired with seeing me with "that little pop-gun" and gave me a 300 Winchester magnum.

I thought he was nuts and made him take payment for it. Anyway, it has a synth stock on it with an integral recoil pad plus a slip on recoil pad. I'm about 170 pounds soaking wet and I sight it in using an additional shoulder pad and in the field don't notice the recoil at all (after all, it's only one or two shots) but to be honest, I prefer shooting my 270.

We've talked about this a lot and he's a big guy and says smaller guys like me kind of move back at the bench or in the field with a harder kicking rifle whereas a heavier guy takes the whole brunt of the recoil due to his size.

 

[Gatehouse]

We've talked about this a lot and he's a big guy and says smaller guys like me kind of move back at the bench or in the field with a harder kicking rifle whereas a heavier guy takes the whole brunt of the recoil due to his size.

I agree that there is more "movement" with a smaller guy,and they can "roll with the punches" so to speak.

However, I also think it's a question of bonyness. (Bonyness is a technical term)

I think that a tall thin bonerack guy REALLY feels the recoil becasue the recoil is hitting his bone more, rather than a guy like me with big shoulders and a thick chest, because the meat of the shoudl er spreads out the recoil a bit more. That's just my theory, from observing various friends shoot, oftentimes they were new shooters...

 

[todbartell]

god you're a manly man aren't you Gatsie

 

[Silverback]

Sorry overstated it bit actually its only 5100 ftlbs with 240 gr MK at 3112 fps

What powder are you using to do this in a 300 Win Mag? :shock: :lol:

 

[joe-nwt]

When you think about it, all the centerfires you have ever shot recoiled alot the first time. From when you were a young lad shooting to go hunting for the first time, perhaps with a 30-30(maybe you only had a 22lr for reference to this point), to the first time you buddy hands you his 375H&H and says "go on, take a few pokes". Each level you move up starts the recoil tolerance building all over again.

So far, for me, a 300WM is a moderate recoiling rifle. I shoot hundreds of rounds through it every year. I have shot larger calibers, and my recoil tolerance drops dramatically. :shock:

I *do* think that most hutners that don't shoot that much would be best served by something like a 7-08, .270, .308.

Don't be foolish. Let them buy the big toys, and when they can't make that once a year shot, sell them off at *reduced* prices to guys who can! :twisted:

Selfish, yes, but hey, that's just me.

 

[joe-nwt]

Sorry overstated it bit actually its only 5100 ftlbs with 240 gr MK at 3112 fps

What powder are you using to do this in a 300 Win Mag? :shock: :lol:

Just guessing RE25, and probably not an ordinary "off the shelf" gun with an "off the shelf" chamber.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

What powder are you using to do this in a 300 Win Mag?

H4831SC 72.1 grains over a 215M primer in winchester case, AND YES it is over Everyones max load, so I do NOT suggest trying it. This is a load I have worked up for MY F class rifle, my case prep is long and arduos and case life is not long, but does it shoot regular 1 hole 5 shot groups!!! The other part of the equation is the 32" barrel my rifle is wearing :mrgreen:

 

[Gatehouse]

god you're a manly man aren't you Gatsie

Yes, I am.

And that is why you are always trying to touch me in an innapropriate manner. :wink:

 

[Gatehouse]

When you think about it, all the centerfires you have ever shot recoiled alot the first time. From when you were a young lad shooting to go hunting for the first time, perhaps with a 30-30(maybe you only had a 22lr for reference to this point), to the first time you buddy hands you his 375H&H and says "go on, take a few pokes". Each level you move up starts the recoil tolerance building all over again.

Exactly!!

And there is also stock fit, etc.

One gun I never really warmed up to shooting was a plain ol Mdl 94 30-30.

It had a narrow, hard buttplate, and it was light. SO shooting it I felt more recoil than shooting a 300Magnum wiht a nice gooshy buttpad and a good stock!

 

[Salty]

One gun I never really warmed up to shooting was a plain ol Mdl 94 30-30.

It had a narrow, hard buttplate, and it was light. SO shooting it I felt more recoil than shooting a 300Magnum wiht a nice gooshy buttpad and a good stock!

Well there's about the worse fit situation going. Kinda like a moose trying to shoulder a marshmellow stick :roll:

 

[catnthehatt]

Due to a deteriorating shoulder / nerve injury, my heavy recoiling rifle days are gonzo.
The only way I can shoot any rifle for more than a few rounds these days is with a pst shieeld, and a sissy bag if the rifle is any kind of a magnum.

Making up a lead slad type of rest so i can keep doing load development and handloading, two of the fun things I like to do when not actually shooting ....
Cat