Couple of things. WW 296 and H110 are the same powder. Faster powder in a longer barrel rifle might react differently than say 2400 or 296, pressure curve would be very sharp. Also a cast bullet will obiturate and seal the bore tighter....
Over loading the Marlin
- Thread starter H4831
- Start date
Blue Dot worked better in my revolver than 2400.
I was able to achieve some really outstanding velocity with it and 240gn bullets back when velocity was 'the goal'. This was with a Ruger SBH with a 10.5" barrel.
I think H110/296 may be more ideal but I haven't tried them yet.
Blue Dot has worked very well for me in a variety of loads. Its a great powder.
I think somebody mentioned that a Super Redhawk would be stronger than a Super Blackhawk. Really? I'd be surprised by that just by the nature of the two designs. Is this true?
Oh yeah, this thread is about the Marlin. I have a 336 in 30-30 and an 1895G in 45/70. Does anyone really think that Marlin would build this action with two thread types for two essentially identical calibers? I seriously doubt it. I suspect that all the new manufacture 1895's use the v thread and that the old 1895's (before 450 Marlin existed) had square. When I bought my Guide Gun I chose 45/70 over 450 strictly for the nostalgia associated with that cartridge and the fact that I don't like belted cases. No ballistic reason for sure. If I didn't plan to handload for it then 450 would have been the only choice.
That being said, I have lots of confidence in the strength of the Marlin and I don't worry about it at all. I use some heavy loads but I don't try to push it to the edge either. I would suggest that any 450 Marlin data can be used in 45/70 loads in the Marlin with no problem. They're the same after all. Brass strength plays only a minor role IMO as the brass is able to flow at these pressures anyway. It's the strength of the action that matters.
I was able to achieve some really outstanding velocity with it and 240gn bullets back when velocity was 'the goal'. This was with a Ruger SBH with a 10.5" barrel.
I think H110/296 may be more ideal but I haven't tried them yet.
Blue Dot has worked very well for me in a variety of loads. Its a great powder.
I think somebody mentioned that a Super Redhawk would be stronger than a Super Blackhawk. Really? I'd be surprised by that just by the nature of the two designs. Is this true?
Oh yeah, this thread is about the Marlin. I have a 336 in 30-30 and an 1895G in 45/70. Does anyone really think that Marlin would build this action with two thread types for two essentially identical calibers? I seriously doubt it. I suspect that all the new manufacture 1895's use the v thread and that the old 1895's (before 450 Marlin existed) had square. When I bought my Guide Gun I chose 45/70 over 450 strictly for the nostalgia associated with that cartridge and the fact that I don't like belted cases. No ballistic reason for sure. If I didn't plan to handload for it then 450 would have been the only choice.
That being said, I have lots of confidence in the strength of the Marlin and I don't worry about it at all. I use some heavy loads but I don't try to push it to the edge either. I would suggest that any 450 Marlin data can be used in 45/70 loads in the Marlin with no problem. They're the same after all. Brass strength plays only a minor role IMO as the brass is able to flow at these pressures anyway. It's the strength of the action that matters.
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Funny how after decades of denial, it took the recent shortages, for them to admit it was true.
I have always considered the Redhawk to be stronger than a Blackhawk. The earliest Redhawks had trouble with the barrels coming loose, but when this was corrected, as with a frame extension, (although it turned out to be just the lubricant used in assembly) the Redhawk was usually considered to be the strongest revolver. With the frame extension and extra cylinder lock on the Super Redhawk, I don't think there is any doubt that it is stronger than a Super Blackhawk 44 magnum.
I suppose somewhere out there are the results of tests done, but it is certainly common opinion that the Redhwks are stonger.
Ruger builds very strong guns, in any style, or any calibre.
Sorry for the ramblings on what is supposed to be about Marlins, but I was the one who originally said on this thread that the Redhawks were stronger.
I suppose somewhere out there are the results of tests done, but it is certainly common opinion that the Redhwks are stonger.
Ruger builds very strong guns, in any style, or any calibre.
Sorry for the ramblings on what is supposed to be about Marlins, but I was the one who originally said on this thread that the Redhawks were stronger.
outoftowner
Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat, AB
I have to say this thread is almost helpful, it shows me confidence in starting to reload. We have a marlin 30as (mid 70's 336 just a less fancy model) in 30-30 and I think that is going to be the first caliber I reload, it makes me feel a bit safer in the happening that I do screw up when i'm doing my first few loads, that I should be ok. By the way do any of you have a good High volume powder that would fill the case incase I accidentally double charge. (not saying that i'm not careful enough to not pay enough attention, just all precautionary measures)
This prompted me to google the question. Yep, while both are very robust handguns, the SRH is generally accepted as stronger than the SBH.
You learn something new once in a while....thanks H4831.
PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
If you take a look at pressure/velocity charts, H-110 often exhibits higher speeds while giving slightly lower pressures.
All is in the shape of the pressure curve which is longer with H-110, pushing the bullets just a tad longer.
PP.
All is in the shape of the pressure curve which is longer with H-110, pushing the bullets just a tad longer.
PP.
Good post.
Regarding powder for the 30-30, there is no danger, whatsoever, of a double charge, with any of the accepted powders for full power loading of the 30-30. There are many suitable powders, all requiring a very similar charge and all of them nearly filling the case.
I would use the 170 grain bullet designed for the 30-30.
Here are some powders: Varget, 4320, 4064, 4895 and H335.
Varget is listed as 33 grains being a full power load. All the others I list are between 30.5 and 32.5, for standard power loadings.
Many experienced 30-30 loaders have one phrase that fits all with the 170 grain bullet. "30 grains of 3031."
You picked an excellent calibre and rifle for starting out with.
Remember, all these loadings were calibrated to be safe in any 30-30 rifle out there, in fair shape. And some of those rifles could be over 100 years old!
Obviously, any load found in any standard reloading book for the 30-30, is not a top pressure, near the danger point loading.
Just reload and fire away.
The distance from the most shallow part of the threads to the chamber is insanely small on a Marlin 45/70. The argument is that not much thickness is gained by using a the smaller thread but the thickness of the chamber walls is increased substantially compared to the original thickness. The problem goes back to the action being designed for a 30-30. The 45/70 stuffed into the Marlin action left very little room for chamber wall thickness. Over loading can cause chamber wall bulging especially where the chamber is not supported by the receiver as a result of the overly thin walls. A solution to the problem would be to move the tube mag down a small amount to allow a thicker chamber overall but that would involve retooling on a large and costly scale. The "V" style threads are definitely a step in the right direction though and hopefully Marlin makes all of their new rifles with the improved version. Never the less the old Marlins are still capable of handling some impressive loadings and if not abused will last indefinitely.
