Baikal is not what I would consider to be a light shotgun. Even a 20 gauge weighs 7lbs or more. My upland guns weigh 5-1/2 to 6lbs. Yildiz makes some reasonably priced O/U shotguns that weigh around 6lbs in 20 gauge.
over under shotgun for skeet and upland
- Thread starter volpe1
- Start date
Baikal is not what I would consider to be a light shotgun. Even a 20 gauge weighs 7lbs or more. My upland guns weigh 5-1/2 to 6lbs. Yildiz makes some reasonably priced O/U shotguns that weigh around 6lbs in 20 gauge.
Yildiz is a good choice, so is CZ as far as an inexpensive hunting gun. CDB1097 on Shotgun World with 32,611 rounds (June 11th, 2016) out of his CZ Canvasback. Likely the exception than the norm though.
Another option is Charles Daily over under or side by side. They are made by Miroku which is the manufacturer for Browning's Citori. They have a good name outside America as they sell to every other market as Miroku. It's only in North America they are labeled as a Browning.
I just bought a Citori Lightning with 28" barrels in 20 gauge (Invector+ choke system). It's a fantastic gun too.
Last edited:
I picked up a used 1960's Miroku made Charles Daly 12ga skeet gun last month, 26" barrels choked Skeet and Skeet. I'm a newbie on the skeet field but really like this gun. I'm sure it will do me well for woodcock this fall......
RB
RB
They really are great and often way undervalued. I saw a Miroku trap gun on the EE for $450 last week. A steal considering that it is called the BT-99 when you put a Browning label on it.
I'm not sure. :/
I'm not sure. :/
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I saw it too and there were many differences between that gun and a BT-99 just as there are between the Charles Daly and the Citori. They shared the same manufacturer at one time but not the same designs or parts. Any gunsmith who has worked on both will tell you that.
BTW if you really want to know the Miroku-Charles Daly-Browning relationship read this from the Browning website. Miroku hasn't produced a gun for Charles Daly since 1976 and those they did produce under the Charles Daly name were not Browning designs. They were Miroku designs made to copy the look aesthetically as close as possible to the FN built Browning Superposed which was dominating the O/U sales markets of the post war 50's & early 60's.
ht tp://www.browning.com/news/articles/brief-history-browning-legendary-miroku-factory.html
Last edited:
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I hope this will clarify the Charles Daly/Browning/Miroku manufacturing myth of today.
Charles Daly is a brand of firearms licensed to Samco Global Arms, Inc. located in Miami, Florida. It used to be a firearms manufacturer and importer, located in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, in the United States.
Historyl
Charles Daly was born in New York City on October 12, 1839. In the late nineteenth century, around 1875, in New York City, Charles Daly and August Shoverling began a business importing firearms into the United States, primarily from the city of Suhl in what was then Prussia.[1] Manufacturers for Daly at that time included Heym, Shiller, H. A. Lindner, Sauer, J&W Tolley of England, Newman (of Belgium) and Lefever Arms.[2]
In 1887 Shoverling and Daly were joined by a third partner named Joseph Gales, and the company began doing business as Shoverling, Daly and Gales, before settling simply on the name Charles Daly.[3] The original Charles Daly died suddenly in 1899, but the business continued with his son, Charles Howard Daly, taking his place until 1919, when the partnership was sold to Henry Modell.
The new owners continued the tradition of importing firearms and marketing them with the Charles Daly name until the late 1920s, when the company was sold to the Walzer family, which owned Sloan's Sporting Goods in Ridgefield, Connecticut. The Walzers established a branch of Sloan's in New York City known as Charles Daly & Company. Manufacturers from all over the world produced Daly guns for the Walzer's, including Beretta, Bernadelli and Miroku.
In 1976, Sloan's sold the Charles Daly trademark to Outdoor Sports Headquarters Inc. (OSHI), a sporting goods wholesaler in Dayton, Ohio. In 1996, OSHI was itself sold to another firearm wholesaler, Jerry's Sport Center in Forest City, Pennsylvania.
In 1996 the brand was acquired by KBI, Inc. of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which expanded the import line to include semi-auto and pump-action shotguns and 1911-style pistols and re-christened the company as Charles Daly, The Shooting Sports Specialist.[1]
In 2008, KBI formed a new division of the company named Charles Daly Defense to manufacture and market the hugely popular AR-15 type semi-automatic carbines and rifles for law enforcement, target shooting and home defense. In a departure from the tradition of selling only imported firearms, Charles Daly Defense AR-15s were manufactured in the United States.
A letter from Michael Kassnar posted on the Charles Daly Website on January 29, 2010 indicated that Charles Daly and KBI were going out of business and closing their doors effective January 29, 2010.
At the SHOT Show held in Las Vegas in January 2012, Charles Daly and CD Defense announced their return to the US market with distribution by Trans World Arms LLC of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Shotguns: Over and under, side by side, pump action, and semi-automatics are currently produced in Turkey. All of the pumps and semi-autos are made by Akkar in Istanbul, but Sarsilmaz and ATA also produced semi-autos for Daly during the mid-2000s. SGAI is importing over and under, pump action, and semi-automatics made by Akkar factory in Istanbul, Turkey. Between 1996 and 2005, side by sides came from Zabala Hermanos in Spain and over & unders came from Sabatti in Italy. From the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s, Miroku of Japan, the producer of Browning shotguns and rifles, manufactured the over & under shotguns for Daly.
Charles Daly is a brand of firearms licensed to Samco Global Arms, Inc. located in Miami, Florida. It used to be a firearms manufacturer and importer, located in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, in the United States.
Historyl
Charles Daly was born in New York City on October 12, 1839. In the late nineteenth century, around 1875, in New York City, Charles Daly and August Shoverling began a business importing firearms into the United States, primarily from the city of Suhl in what was then Prussia.[1] Manufacturers for Daly at that time included Heym, Shiller, H. A. Lindner, Sauer, J&W Tolley of England, Newman (of Belgium) and Lefever Arms.[2]
In 1887 Shoverling and Daly were joined by a third partner named Joseph Gales, and the company began doing business as Shoverling, Daly and Gales, before settling simply on the name Charles Daly.[3] The original Charles Daly died suddenly in 1899, but the business continued with his son, Charles Howard Daly, taking his place until 1919, when the partnership was sold to Henry Modell.
The new owners continued the tradition of importing firearms and marketing them with the Charles Daly name until the late 1920s, when the company was sold to the Walzer family, which owned Sloan's Sporting Goods in Ridgefield, Connecticut. The Walzers established a branch of Sloan's in New York City known as Charles Daly & Company. Manufacturers from all over the world produced Daly guns for the Walzer's, including Beretta, Bernadelli and Miroku.
In 1976, Sloan's sold the Charles Daly trademark to Outdoor Sports Headquarters Inc. (OSHI), a sporting goods wholesaler in Dayton, Ohio. In 1996, OSHI was itself sold to another firearm wholesaler, Jerry's Sport Center in Forest City, Pennsylvania.
In 1996 the brand was acquired by KBI, Inc. of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which expanded the import line to include semi-auto and pump-action shotguns and 1911-style pistols and re-christened the company as Charles Daly, The Shooting Sports Specialist.[1]
In 2008, KBI formed a new division of the company named Charles Daly Defense to manufacture and market the hugely popular AR-15 type semi-automatic carbines and rifles for law enforcement, target shooting and home defense. In a departure from the tradition of selling only imported firearms, Charles Daly Defense AR-15s were manufactured in the United States.
A letter from Michael Kassnar posted on the Charles Daly Website on January 29, 2010 indicated that Charles Daly and KBI were going out of business and closing their doors effective January 29, 2010.
At the SHOT Show held in Las Vegas in January 2012, Charles Daly and CD Defense announced their return to the US market with distribution by Trans World Arms LLC of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Shotguns: Over and under, side by side, pump action, and semi-automatics are currently produced in Turkey. All of the pumps and semi-autos are made by Akkar in Istanbul, but Sarsilmaz and ATA also produced semi-autos for Daly during the mid-2000s. SGAI is importing over and under, pump action, and semi-automatics made by Akkar factory in Istanbul, Turkey. Between 1996 and 2005, side by sides came from Zabala Hermanos in Spain and over & unders came from Sabatti in Italy. From the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s, Miroku of Japan, the producer of Browning shotguns and rifles, manufactured the over & under shotguns for Daly.
Used guns can be a great value, new isn't always better. A single new gun budget may accommodate two or more quality used guns.
If you don't mind fixed chokes and older guns, the Browning Superposed shotguns are very good. In their day they were the gold standard. I don't know what support for them is like today, it could range from excellent to non existent depending on how hard you look. I often see well used ones for under $1k that have a lot of grouse and rabbits left in them. Pristine examples tend to be expensive because of the collector factor.
Like Cintax, I think the Lightning is a nice shotgun, although at over $2k new they should be. There was a used one at The Gun Dealer for $1399 recently.
Like many Browning shotguns, some of them have issues with piercing Cheddite primed shells.
SKB made some excellent guns too, made in Japan. The new SKB guns are made in Turkey. Support is limited for the Japanese SKBs.
Like others have said, Miroku is a good choice.
Generally speaking, made in Japan is a very good thing when it comes to shotguns.
If you don't mind fixed chokes and older guns, the Browning Superposed shotguns are very good. In their day they were the gold standard. I don't know what support for them is like today, it could range from excellent to non existent depending on how hard you look. I often see well used ones for under $1k that have a lot of grouse and rabbits left in them. Pristine examples tend to be expensive because of the collector factor.
Like Cintax, I think the Lightning is a nice shotgun, although at over $2k new they should be. There was a used one at The Gun Dealer for $1399 recently.
Like many Browning shotguns, some of them have issues with piercing Cheddite primed shells.
SKB made some excellent guns too, made in Japan. The new SKB guns are made in Turkey. Support is limited for the Japanese SKBs.
Like others have said, Miroku is a good choice.
Generally speaking, made in Japan is a very good thing when it comes to shotguns.
True, most Beretta o/u guns are not a perfect fit for me, either. The semis seem to be better for me.
I think CZ has discontinued the BW, but a weak dollar has pushed old stock prices up.
Nice little gun, I'll shoot it til it quits then look for something else. It might see 500 rounds a year, probably less.
I think CZ has discontinued the BW, but a weak dollar has pushed old stock prices up.
Nice little gun, I'll shoot it til it quits then look for something else. It might see 500 rounds a year, probably less.
I guess you learn something every day.
