Over under vs pump

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hkr

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I just finished reading that massive thread on the Ricol O/U on Corwin Arms subforum - beautiful gun!

What are the functional pros and cons of an O/U like this compared to pump action of similar barrel length? From what I've gathered: Pros - shorter OAL, a bit smoother to pull from a scabbard and less likely to hang up on gear, already threaded for chokes unlike most short pumps, faster 2nd shot. Cons - 2 shots instead of 4-5, slower to reload. Anything else?

For a multipurpose gun, specifically for bear/grouse/turkey would you choose the Ricol O/U or a pump action gun with same barrel length that was threaded for chokes? Not factoring in waterfowl or two legged critters, as I don't anticipate engaging those in the near future :)

Here is a photo from that thread:
ricol_measure.JPG
 
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I have used a Maverick HS12 for a long time now and always thought it had its merits. I also own one of these Ricol O/U as well as I've grown extremely fond of these SBS O/U type shotguns and wanted another to add to my collection.
Few things I've found useful...

-Take it apart in under 5 seconds. Put it back together in under 5 seconds. Super easy compact carry when broken down. So easy to throw into a backpack or small duffel and take anywhere. Roadtrips, hiking, camping. It's almost what I consider my Canadian concealed carry. You can carry it places and people never need to know you have it. Going camping with people who don't like guns? Just put it together in your tent so you're prepared, but in your backpack they will never know you have it. Going on a long roadtrip and want something along for the ride because your staying in a sketchy area of town? It never has to leave your pack wherever you go and you can just walk into your sketchy motel and if you need it, bam 3 seconds its ready to rock. About as good as canadian CCW as we get these days.

-No need to muss or fuss when hunting. Quick, light, they take chokes, no need to worry about magazing plugging. Point and shoot.

-There is something to be said for simplicity. With simplicity comes things like lightweight, reliability and compactness. These will never replace a pump or semi for serious work. But I have fancy, schmancy guns with bells and whistles for all that, as serious the work will ever have to be in the average persons case. When it comes to the KISS rule and typical usage, I actual am very much endeared to how useful these little guys are.

I actually had a carrier made up that holds the 3 pieces plus accessories of the HS12 broken apart. You can see it here....



It holds 3 pieces of the shotgun, plus a case for chokes and key, a light holder and 2 pistol caliber inserts, 1x357 + 1x44mag.


PIc for size of the carrier holding the broken down gun for transport/storage. All that fits into that carrier 19x6x4" I just throw that into my daypack and off I go. I'm all about convenience and ease of carry now. Other than the odd tactical courses none of my dressed up tactical gear see's much of the light of day anymore. This thing goes out with me more than any other gun I own because of its ease of use and carry.


On a side note, in comparing the 2, the Maverick seems more sturdier and solid. 2 things I don't like about the maverick is the pendulum safety, which blocks the trigger when pointed downwards and it only has extractors. The RICOL foreend seems a bit lightweight and overall it doesn't feel quite as sturdy as the maverick. A big plus is that it has ejectors. One big downside for the RICOL I noticed is that my gaugemate 7" barrel inserts will NOT fit in the RICOL, which is a big disappointment.
 
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chuck 3436, great little review, great case for the ricol, I have had my eye on that ricol o/u for a while to use with my 7" inserts, I am glad you added in that they will NOT fit, a couple times now I have been saddled with disappointment when I find out the inserts {if longer} are a no go. as a side note, they will NOT fit my dom arms backpacker or warrior backpacker, they WILL fit my Baikal my outlaw and a fn full length sxs I have. I would have been slightly devastated to find my insert set didn't fit the ricol, thanks for the heads up, cheers
 
I use a stoeger 20ga coach gun for a chicken gun when I go moose hunting. It's faster to get out of the toyota and faster to load (I think) than the pumps.
I also don't own any short pumps to compare it to.
 
one thing about a double barrel is that you have rounds chambered compared to a pump were you can carry it with rounds in the magazine and none in the chamber . this may concern you from a safety point of view or it may not .i suppose if it bothered you it could be carried loaded and broke open .i am interested to hear what others have to say about this .
 
I have this 20g pump with screw in chokes coming. I think it'll be a nice chicken gun. I really don't ever see myself choosing a hinge gun over one of my pumps. Its a comfort and preference thing I guess.

 
I've been on the fence with the Ricol for a few days now... I think I've decided on the Silver frame

But single trigger or double? What are pros and cons there... ability to select which barrel shoots first with the single trigger... anything else? Is one setup in these more reliable than another, or built better from those who have taken them apart?

farmer47 said:
one thing about a double barrel is that you have rounds chambered compared to a pump were you can carry it with rounds in the magazine and none in the chamber . this may concern you from a safety point of view or it may not .i suppose if it bothered you it could be carried loaded and broke open .i am interested to hear what others have to say about this .
Click to expand...

I had an old Stevens SxS that I was carrying in the bush years ago, alone at the time, loaded with birdshot with the safety on. I slipped and lost my footing going over a fallen log, and the receiver bumped the log pretty hard and one round went off!!! I never carry closed breech since.
 
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i reread the original post and he asks about bear defense, grouse and turkey hunting . in order of importance bear defense is at the top and i see he is in the west and grizzly bears come to mind . i am going to default to those bear defense threads that i have read and the consensus of the experienced is that a gun with a fourteen inch barrel in pump action and loaded with brenneke black magic slugs is as good as it gets in a shotgun .enough barrel length to keep your hand from the muzzle and enough rounds to do the job.
 
The barrels on the RICOL taper. The 7" Gaugemate inserts simply won't fit in.

They work on my Maverick though.

The maverick has a single selectable trigger, the Ricol has a double on mine. Pro's and Con's? Neither really, it's pretty simple either way and it's really up to you. Slightly easier to chose which barrel to shoot first on a double trigger but a single is a cleaner, more standard feel.
 
Huh, guess I'll weigh in, since the guns pictured in the OP are mine ;)

It's a really tough call, because I like both those shotguns, a lot. But because I have both, I also get to kind of pick depending on what I'm planning on doing.

If I'm out specifically hunting, (which would be grouse, pretty much the only fowl I hunt), it's an easy choice: The Ricol. The chokes tighten up the pattern noticeably. Also, the only time I hunt grouse is in the fall, when I'm also out looking for deer. The basic pattern is we're up before dawn, and in our hides a good 45mintues to an hour before first legal shooting. Sit still and freeze for a few hours, and then when the sun is fully up, I'll meet up with my buddy and commiserate about our lack of luck and warm up a bit. Then we spend most of the daylight hours wandering around checking trains and signs for deer, and try and bag a few grouse, before setting up in whatever hide we've picked out for the evening based on what we've see for tracks and signs of deer movement.

So, when we're wandering around looking for grouse, I pop a few slugs in my pockets in case we scare up the deer from their day beds. It's pretty quick to pop open a break action and swap shells. Alternatively, with the double trigger, I can load bottom (front trigger) with birdshot, and top (rear trigger) with a slug in case we scare up a deer. The Ricol has smart ejectors, so only ejects spent shells and lifts unspent, really a nice setup for that kind of hunting.

For general woods walking when I'm not hunting, emergency trunk gun, etc. It's the pump, no questions asked. For those situations, all I'm thinking about is bear defense, and I want the extra ammo loaded and ready to go. I've never shot a bear, hope never for it to be an issue, but on the really remote chance it comes down to that, I want extra shots. Grizzlies are big critters, and tough. I've been within 50 yards of them more than once over the years, and until you've been that close in an uncontrolled environment (ie: not the zoo), it's hard to really wrap you're head around just how beefy the things are. I pre-load candy-cane: top round is 00 to increase hit probability on the first panic shot and give me a chance to slow it down, and the next three shots slugs, to make sure.

Black bears: just wave your arms in the air and yell "booga-booga.
Cougars (which kill as many people as Grizzlies do) : Fuggetaboutit. Those suckers stack you and jump you from behind. If it's your time, it's your time.

I have buttstock leather shell holder on both now, and carry the same load in both shell holders, which is my "emergency" load:

1 comet flare
1 bear banger - basically a flash-bang that detonates about 35-50 yards from the muzzle. If a bear is more than 50 yards away from me, I would prefer this and scare it off than kill it unnecessarily.
2 double aught
2 slugs.
 
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Chuck, thanks for the detailed info. I like the case - I have a 10/22 takedown so I can appreciate how that compactness would be handy in a shotgun as well. For the inserts, I'm assuming other ones wouldn't work either, if the problem is the barrel?

That's a good point about having to carry with rounds in the chamber, hadn't considered that. I sometimes do when I'm out solo but not with other people, so it would be limiting in those situations.

Grelmar, hope you don't mind me using your photo, it was the best one I could find to illustrate the two options. And thanks for sharing your experience with the two, very helpful. What are your thoughts on the faster follow up shot with the o/u vs extra rounds with the pump? There are so many potential scenarios with different time frames that I think it's a bit of a toss up.

In an ideal world I would have 3 or 4 shotguns, but don't have the storage space or budget right now, so I was hoping to get by with one. Sounds like two might be a better bet though, to minimize the compromises.
 
hkr said:
Chuck, thanks for the detailed info. I like the case - I have a 10/22 takedown so I can appreciate how that compactness would be handy in a shotgun as well. For the inserts, I'm assuming other ones wouldn't work either, if the problem is the barrel?

That's a good point about having to carry with rounds in the chamber, hadn't considered that. I sometimes do when I'm out solo but not with other people, so it would be limiting in those situations.

Grelmar, hope you don't mind me using your photo, it was the best one I could find to illustrate the two options. And thanks for sharing your experience with the two, very helpful. What are your thoughts on the faster follow up shot with the o/u vs extra rounds with the pump? There are so many potential scenarios with different time frames that I think it's a bit of a toss up.

In an ideal world I would have 3 or 4 shotguns, but don't have the storage space or budget right now, so I was hoping to get by with one. Sounds like two might be a better bet though, to minimize the compromises.
Click to expand...

Follow up shots are about more than pulling the trigger, a lot of it is about getting back on target. Practically speaking, especially with a 12 gauge, with a bit of practice you can fire a pump as quickly as a semi as a O/U or SxS. You just have to work out a bit at the range practicing working the slide as you get back on target. And by "a bit" I mean a couple of days at 50-100 shells a day (roughly) and after that it's pretty much second nature.

Like most things "gun", Hickock45 has turned this into an art form - he can work a pump faster than me, for sure, but if you watch, you'll see that it takes him about the same amount of time to acquire/re-acquire with a pump or semi.

For most of us mere mortals, you'll actually spend more time acquiring/re-acquiring the target than you will working the slide on a pump.

 
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