Owners of Surgeon or Defiance Actions?
- Thread starter Clocked92
- Start date
Real precision shooting in edmonton area is where I got my surgeon and defiance from. The engineering support prospective was much appreciated in helping me make my decisions. Surgeon was 2 weeks wait while defiance was much longer. Both excellent choices btw.
There's a lot of surgeon fans here... but a while ago I helped a friend build a nice rifle and we had a lengthy conversation with a very popular gunsmith/barrel hanger just east of the Toronto area about exactly this subject.
He would not elaborate, but insisted that there was a problem with Surgeon actions that he found a (secret) work around for. Unfortunately he got real dodgy about specifics but highly recommended Defiance over Surgeon for this unspecified reason.
Sorry guys, I wish I had a better answer and I don't like leaving such a cryptic response, but I trust this particular smith for what its worth.
We ended up getting a Defiance action and put it on a J Allen stock. It turned out to be a real nice rifle.
He would not elaborate, but insisted that there was a problem with Surgeon actions that he found a (secret) work around for. Unfortunately he got real dodgy about specifics but highly recommended Defiance over Surgeon for this unspecified reason.
Sorry guys, I wish I had a better answer and I don't like leaving such a cryptic response, but I trust this particular smith for what its worth.
We ended up getting a Defiance action and put it on a J Allen stock. It turned out to be a real nice rifle.
Really would like to know about this... Kinda sounds like he just wanted to sell a Defiance if he wouldn't get into specifics. I read somewhere in a forum thread from like 5 years ago that supposedly Surgeon actions aren't "timed" correctly. I really had to do some research to find out what this meant but they sure seem to shoot good still.
No he had no interest whatsoever in selling the action. He was to hang the barrel and that's it. He knew that. He doesn't even sell guns. He's just a gunsmith who hangs barrels mostly for target shooters.
Given his many years of experience and fine reputation we asked for his no BS opinion.
All I know is that he had the fix for whatever the problem was with Surgeon but he preferred Defiance anyway. Maybe it was the timing thing you mentioned. Could be.
Hopefully the problem is resolved by now.
PitBull1973
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Right Behind You
Chou Bros built my 300 win with a defiance action and it's awesome
There's no problem, hell, he wouldn't even say.
There's way too many of them out there with no failures, and outstanding accuracy, to claim otherwise.
You can't go wrong with either defiance or surgeon. One just needs to be aware that the defiance's tighter tolerance does add up to issues in blowing sand type conditions.
Last edited:
Question regarding Magazines for these actions. I understand the Surgeon 591 runs only AICS mags while the Deviant can be ordered with an AW mag cut.
I have never run a Bolt gun with magazines...Is it possible to load a single round through the ejection port with both of these magazines?
I have never run a Bolt gun with magazines...Is it possible to load a single round through the ejection port with both of these magazines?
Yup. The difference is in how big the mag cut is and how the feed ramp works. AICS is a centre feed staggered round design whereas the AW is a dual feed staggered round, think M14 mags, hence they can have a shorter overall height while still holding 10 rounds.
Thanks, I realize how the mags differ from eachother. My concern is more just if I have an empty mag in my rifle and require one more round, can I just stick that round in the ejection port and close the bolt with the AICS mag still in the gun? I'm assuming that I am really overthinking this, and if I saw it in person it would make perfect sense.
You overlooked the "yup" at the beginning of my reply. That was in reply to your question about whether you could single feed both setups with a mag in
Give yourself a break and stop looking because the Bighorn TL2 or TL3 is the answer.
It is by far the best action on the market right now if you don't want a 60° bolt throw. The only one on par is the Mausingfield.
Everything is so true that guy like Josh at Patriot Valley Arms doesn't need to see the rifle to make the barrel. Call him and you'll see. They're is also the podcast about him on Precision Rifle Media.
Everything is perfect form the start. The bolt is Melonite so you won't have to worried about binding and galling(like defiance) the bolt head is floating so you always have full lug contact and perfect alignment and of course the classic integrated recoil lug.
Everything else is options like the defiance including magwell cutout ant etc.. oh and you can have it in 16 or 20 TPI is you want to use a Savage like configuration.
The TL3 is a monter. Mechanical ejection , controlled feed, standard AW magwell cut and easy takedown for the firing pin assy.
It is by far the best action on the market right now if you don't want a 60° bolt throw. The only one on par is the Mausingfield.
Everything is so true that guy like Josh at Patriot Valley Arms doesn't need to see the rifle to make the barrel. Call him and you'll see. They're is also the podcast about him on Precision Rifle Media.
Everything is perfect form the start. The bolt is Melonite so you won't have to worried about binding and galling(like defiance) the bolt head is floating so you always have full lug contact and perfect alignment and of course the classic integrated recoil lug.
Everything else is options like the defiance including magwell cutout ant etc.. oh and you can have it in 16 or 20 TPI is you want to use a Savage like configuration.
The TL3 is a monter. Mechanical ejection , controlled feed, standard AW magwell cut and easy takedown for the firing pin assy.
Very curious about the 'floating' bolt head design and effectiveness. Is it superior to a standard bolt with fixed head? I know some of the older steyr with the rear lugs arranged on a seperate 'collar' seemed to provide excellent mid range accuracy...whats the deal?
