P-14/17 action to build a target .308

Hi-Standard

Hi-Standard

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I have a choice between two actions one is a P-14, but it has ERA stamped on it, but looks to be in pretty good shape. What does ERA stand for, and I hear it is a weaker action. And the other is a P-17 with I believe an RA stamped on it, not in quite as nice shape. Are either of these fine to build a nice target .308 Winchester with a bull barrel, and a Boyds' Target/Varminter stock?:confused:
 
why would you waste such a huge action on a .308win :confused:

much better suited to a .300mag, .300rum, .30-378

take the P14 and do a simple rebarrel to 303/25 (.25-303) and get a fun plinker :D
 
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ERA = Eddystone Remington Arms. Either could be made to work. A M1917 has a boltface, magazine and extractor better suited for conversion to .308 though. Amphibious mentions the larger headed cartridges; the P14 bolt is better suited to these than the .308 sized case. There are alterations that you might want to do to improve the trigger, lock time, etc. How much of the work are you going to do yourself? It might be easier, and even less expensive to start with a different action.
 
Three manufacturers of that action.......

Eddystone is considered brittle and not recommended for alterations such as rebarreling...

Winchester and Remington are suitable for converting.

A lot of labour is required to make something nice..... today it is way cheaper to use a commercial action...
 
tiriaq said:
ERA = Eddystone Remington Arms. Either could be made to work. A M1917 has a boltface, magazine and extractor better suited for conversion to .308 though. Amphibious mentions the larger headed cartridges; the P14 bolt is better suited to these than the .308 sized case. There are alterations that you might want to do to improve the trigger, lock time, etc. How much of the work are you going to do yourself? It might be easier, and even less expensive to start with a different action.
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The history on these two actions(P14/17), is that they are nothing more than two actions and two bolts sitting on the gunsmiths shelf, no barrels or stocks. For $350, he will install a blank bull barrel on the action, ream it to .308, and fit and bed a Boyds' stock. I have to ### up the trigger, finish the outside of the stock, and supply said stock, for the cost of about $150.00. This is going to be a poormans target rifle, the smith has other actions, but they are way too much coin. He has a Mauser action, for the same price, but he told me that he could make a P14/17 more accurate. Something to do with clearance between the bolt face, and the breach face. Even though the P-14 is an Eddystone, will it be ample for say a slightly hot .308 load? I've chosen .308 Winchester because it is famous for its accuracy, and this is going to be strictly a target rifle. I'm leaning towards the P-14 action because somebody has already milled of the rear sight ears and done a pretty good job of it. This saves the smith a little time, and me a little coin. With regards to the bolt face, I guess he could just swap it out with the P-17? What can be done with a P-14 trigger to make it more accurate? Are there after market triggers availble in Canada? This is going to be my first custom rifle, and I trust your guys judgement, since you're way more experienced at this than I am.:redface:
 
Refer to Dennis' comments about rebarrelling an Eddystone. Some of these have been observed with receiver rings cracked longitudinally along the bottom, during barrel removal. If you decide to go with the ERA make darn sure that the barrel was removed without damage. Even though you are looking at actions close to 90 years old, conventional wisdom is that .308 is well within the capabilites of the action. So, for $350, you get a barrelled action fitted into a stock that you supply. $150 for the stock. Drilling and tapping? Is the bolt fitted to the action - you can't just swap a bolt in and expect proper fit. As Mysticplayer on this board will report, fine target rifles can be made on these actions. Often these actions are speedlocked, to get faster locktime, and new trigger mechanisms are installed. This will bump up the price, at least $150. There have been complete used target rifles advertised on this forum for less than the total so far. Resale value on completion is also a consideration. Projects are fun, and can be rewarding, but can also eat up more money than the results are worth. Is starting with a rebuilt P14 or M17 the best choice? Would a commercial action be better? I have two elderly BR rifles, one Hart built on a Hart 1A action, the other Hart built on a sleeved 700. I'd bet that the one on the Hart action would be easier to sell at a better price than the sleeved Remington.
 
Been playing with these actions for years. They work really well and can make some very nice shooters.

At present, I have a P17 converted to #### on opening (essentially a Rem 30), Timney trigger tuned very light, Douglas XX match barrel in 308 12 twist, and a Boyds varminter stock. Set up for cast bullets, it will also shoot jacketed into very small groups. I wouldn't use a P14 action for the 308 case. You might get extraction issues. Swapping bolts is more a headache then it's worth. Get the smith to modify the extractor so that it will close on a chambered rd (ie push feed). Simple job.

I prefer these actions over the Mauser but the Mauser has more aftermarket.

The P series of actions are built like tanks so also can be used to make affordable magnum cannons.

If you do alot of the work yourself, they make affordable actions especially if already sporterised and set up for a scope. If you are paying a smith, the hours will rack up quickly and is no longer cost effective.

However, at the end of the day, you still have a converted surplus action so resale is not the greatest.

I have probably built over a dozen rifles on surplus actions, most of them P series. Until the Stevens, certainly the way to go for an affordable toy.

As to cartridge choice, why limit yourself to a 308????

Since you are working with a barrel blank anyways, find out what cals/twist he will offer for the same price. My first choice would be a 6BR and a 12 twist for moderate/long range or a 8 twist for LR. A 22/250 and a fast twist is really nice too.

Then there are the many 6.5's and 7mm to choose from. Way better ballistically then the 308 so end up being 'more' accurate under windy conditions and longer ranges.

Jerry

Here is the 6.5-06 that was just sold.



300 RUM with a 35" barrel.



308 Cast BR rifle w/ Boyds Varminter stock



6.5 Mystic prototype rifle



My first project - 300Wby

 
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'Ol Ugly'

This sort of what you're going for? I keep looking for a better stock for 'Ol Ugly'........... no luck yet......... but my day will come. It's got a 27" Schultz & Larsen (sp?) target barrel in .308..........and yes, it shoots:D

Come to think of it........Tiriaq put this together for me........I think he supplied the parts as well

olugly.jpg
 
Hi-Standard,

If you get it cheap and can afford to spend the time and money then it's a great hobby. I've used ERA actions with no problem but they can come off with difficulty and crack so check them first. I usually soak them with Liquid Wrench for a couple of days and use high bearing surface inserts on the barrel wrench.

Either the P-14 or P-17 would be suitable for a .308 Winchester but watch the 300 Win Mag if you get a P-14 as the magazine well is shorter. Messing around in that area gets frustrating.
 
I built a 6.5-06 on a p 17 chassis and it is a sweet shooting piece and it didn't cost a mint. I did all the work myself and have been offered a good buck to part with it. So I don't think it is a bad place to start
Dave
 
P14, Model 1917 target rifles

For $350 and some work of your own to do, that is a pretty good deal. No, the action is not remotely competitive with the Swings, RPAs, Musgraves and GOK other actions. But I used a Model 1917 with a Schulz and Larsen barrel until it could not hit the bullseyes I was capable of shooting. Then I bought another one with better bits and pieces. My chief accomplishment was a cheek elevator stock with two 3/8" aluminum rods for risers and 1" bar and thumb screws for the collars. The first rifle got a replacement Sportco barrel, simultanious to which I acquired a wife and a more demanding job. My 3rd P14 family rifle is the #1 hunting rifle in 300 Win Mag.

While the rifle is unbuilt, get the gunsmith to machine off the slab-sided ears and level the rear receiver bridge. You might try to duplicate a long action Rem 700 profile. Leave enough metal of the left side for a Parker Hale or AJ Parker backsight. There are some standard mounting points.

While the receiver is still chucked up drill and tap for a one piece scope base. I have read that spot annealing the spots for drilling is one way to defeat the hardening.

Finally, blocking the magazine so one round only can be seated is a good way to get positive extractor engagement on the rim. But you can just as easily weld or glue a filler plate in the magazine well. Makes no difference.
 
Update on the .308 Project

Was talking to the gunsmith yesterday, and he's all out of .308 barrel stock. Maybe a while before he can get one in. So we got to pondering about a heavy barreled 22 centerfire. He has a 22 calibre barrel and he's has got .223, 22-250, and 220 Swift chamber reamers. Since the action (it's a Remington P-14 action by the way, I just dicovered what the RE stamp means), is a long action, we were thinking of 220 Swift. This should help eliminate blocking the mag I think, or at least help with feeding. What's your guys opinion? By the way, thanks for all of your guys input already for the .308 project, everythings still a go, just a new calibre. With regards to .223 Remington, I already have a Remmy 700 sps in that calibre, so I'd kinda like to try something different.
 
None of these rounds will fit a P14 boltface very well - they are much smaller in diameter than a .303. While nothing is impossible, I suspect that .223 would be a single shot. What twist is in the .22 barrel? If its not 1:8 or 1:9the barrel will shoot best with varmint weight bullets. Whether this is important or not depends on the range at which you intend to shoot. Any round not .303 based is probably going to require some fiddling to get magazine feed. As you mention, .220 might be the easiest to get to go through the magazine.
 
You can buy replacement magazines filled already to afford better feeding or you could do it yourself. I have a number of spare recievers and I have re recievered a good barrel!
 
tiriaq said:
None of these rounds will fit a P14 boltface very well - they are much smaller in diameter than a .303. While nothing is impossible, I suspect that .223 would be a single shot. What twist is in the .22 barrel? If its not 1:8 or 1:9the barrel will shoot best with varmint weight bullets. Whether this is important or not depends on the range at which you intend to shoot. Any round not .303 based is probably going to require some fiddling to get magazine feed. As you mention, .220 might be the easiest to get to go through the magazine.
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I think it'll be a standard 1-12 twist. So I'll be limited to 55 gr. or lighter then? I've heard a lot of people talk about premature barrel burn out in these high velocity calibres, that troubles me somewhat as well. Some people say you have to stick to 222 velocities, kind of defeats the purpose for a 220 Swift doesn't it.
 
if you want a cheap plinker on a .303 action look hard at the .25-303.

A rebarrel from Corlane (they have the reamer) will run you $400.

balistically identical to a .257 Roberts.

get a barrel witha 1:12 and a shoot the lighter varmit bullets if you want a varmit rifle.
would be one mean Coyote gun.

If you can find dies and a reamer there is the .22-303........
 
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Amphibious said:
if you want a cheap plinker on a .303 action look hard at the .25-303.

A rebarrel from Corlane (they have the reamer) will run you $400.

balistically identical to a .257 Roberts.

get a barrel witha 1:12 and a shoot the lighter varmit bullets if you want a varmit rifle.
would be one mean Coyote gun.

If you can find dies and a reamer there is the .22-303........
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A few years ago I was looking at this option a 25 or 22 303 and NDFS as was pointed me to Ellwood Epps. Out your way a lot more than mine. Thats one for the future!
 
where could you get a set of dies and a reamer for the .22-.303? It sounds like a cool way to beef up a p-14. Who can tell me more about them, has anybody here shot one? Tell me more, tell me more, I'm all giddy now. I've got two p-14's that are just begging to be hopped up.
 
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